Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[Maynard G. Krebs]

I don't buy it. I just can't see an advantage to taking a small amount of air and routing it through a circuitous duct from one extreme end of the car to the other that can only be used in one place on the track and even then only under certain circumstances. It would be pretty serious alchemy if anyone could find some performance advantage in that.
I would think that the rear endplate DRS hole air exits out the rear somewhere to modify the airflow there, and that in itself is a pretty clever system.
If there are slots in the rear of the front wings, they may or may not be exhausting air from somewhere. I think it is conceivable that a slot in that location just may have some beneficial aero effect, kind of like a reverse Gurney flap (inset instead of extended). But if they are exhausting air from somewhere, that air is entering the wing from somewhere in the front of the car, not the rear.

[Dragonfly]

The carbon fiber piece I've denoted with a red dot does one thing and one thing only: it couples the ductwork from the car to the nose. That's it. Nothing else is connected to it.

If it wasn't in the way, you'd see that everything else, save for the ductwork, is standard F1 equipment.

Everyone is, of course, entitled to his own opinion. But opinion is not a fact. And I don't see any credible fact that what you claim are air ducts are actually such and not an optical illusion of the kind of McLaren "transparent" bodywork or asymmetric bodywork, or non existing scoops and holes.
Until I see a photo under different angle to convince me, I will keep on my view that there are simply extended supports and no fancy ducting.

[mix2mix]

did someone notice that Shumi in FP2, when he set personal best time, he have at first split 0,4 sec better time then Hamilton best, second split advantage is 0,1 sec, and at the end Shumi are slower then Hamilton. Did Shumi deliberately go slower after first split time?

[clipsy1H]

did someone notice that Shumi in FP2, when he set personal best time, he have at first split 0,4 sec better time then Hamilton best, second split advantage is 0,1 sec, and at the end Shumi are slower then Hamilton. Did Shumi deliberately go slower after first split time?

i don't think so ... Michael set best time on Sector 1 25.055 faster then Hamilton with almost 0.100 but on sector 2 he lost 0.500 sec.

If Merc can do a better sector 2 they can be on pole this morning.

[Ferraripilot]

did someone notice that Shumi in FP2, when he set personal best time, he have at first split 0,4 sec better time then Hamilton best, second split advantage is 0,1 sec, and at the end Shumi are slower then Hamilton. Did Shumi deliberately go slower after first split time?

i don't think so ... Michael set best time on Sector 1 25.055 faster then Hamilton with almost 0.100 but on sector 2 he lost 0.500 sec.

If Merc can do a better sector 2 they can be on pole this morning.

Michael was nearly .300 quicker in FP1 sector 2 so I can only guess a few things: Merc changed the setup for FP2, or he made a mistake in S2, or he deliberately did not use super DRS in this area to see what the time difference might be in this sector.

I doubt they changed the setup all that much really.

[Ferraripilot]

Can I say this more clearly? Mercedes are not routing air from the rear of the car to the front and using it to blow the wing.

The DRS-duct is being used as a pressure based switch. The tubes running through the car do not need to be the size of exhaust pipes, they do not carry any high speed air flow, they are simply used to switch the blowing of the front wing on or off.

My theory is air comes in the nose hole, and fills the void in the nose cone and wing pylons, until the pressure builds up enough for the air to blow out the slots on the underside of the wing. When this happens the airflow on the wing is attached and the wing does not stall.

When the DRS-duct is opened/activated the pressure in the nose cone is released, the air now flows down the ducting and exits out the rear wing. The front wing is no longer being blown and stalls, reducing drag.

The two ducts in the chassis do not connect to any kind of ducting in the nose cone, they simple open up in to the nose cone void, the ducting is used to relieve the pressure in the nose cone which would otherwise exit out the slots on the underside of the wing.

Think about how the f-duct worked on the McLaren, the hole in the cockpit was only ever the switching mechanism, the air travelling through it was never used to blow the wing, that was done with the duct in the airbox.

McLaren F-duct Versus Mercedes DRS-duct

Airbox F-duct Intake = Nose Cone Hole

Rear Wing Blowing Slot = Front Wing Blowing Slot

Cockpit F-duct 'Switch' = DRS exposed duct

The key diferences are rather than covering a hole the Mercedes system activates by uncovering a hole. On this basis I also feel rather than blowing the wing to stall it, the Mercedes wing works on the basis of blowing the wing to keep the flow attached, and stalling it by stopping this blowing.

I can get behind this explanation ------. Makes sense. Thanks for the diagram. Now the question is, how much time is this giving Merc in qualifying? Just how good is it, and is there any other possible passive usage of this system making it useable during the race?

[aduka11]

Last Transmission for Lewis from Mclaren pit Wall at the end of FP2...

85 min: Hamilton is told he needs to find three tenths in the middle part of the lap.

[hardingfv32]

The DRS-duct is being used as a pressure based switch. The tubes running through the car do not need to be the size of exhaust pipes, they do not carry any high speed air flow, they are simply used to switch the blowing of the front wing on or off.

Your idea is sound but not practical. The fluid switch requires much more flow than you are able to provide from the DRS hole size and location. We are not even certain that the pressure at the DRS hole is positive or negative.

If you are simply proposing that the air flow exits at the DRS hole that is never going to happen. The flow is going to have the choice of traveling all the way back to the DRS hole or the somewhat easier task of leaving through the FW slots, if they even exist. The FW slots are going to win.

Brian

[i70q7m7ghw]

The DRS-duct is being used as a pressure based switch. The tubes running through the car do not need to be the size of exhaust pipes, they do not carry any high speed air flow, they are simply used to switch the blowing of the front wing on or off.

Your idea is sound but not practical. The fluid switch requires much more flow than you are able to provide from the DRS hole size and location. We are not even certain that the pressure at the DRS hole is positive or negative.

If you are simply proposing that the air flow exits at the DRS hole that is never going to happen. The flow is going to have the choice of traveling all the way back to the DRS hole or the somewhat easier task of leaving through the FW slots, if they even exist. The FW slots are going to win.

Brian

There are pictures of the FW slots, they exist. I'm proposing the DRS-duct is being used as an exit. Some air might still exit through the slots, but it'll do so at a lower velocity, such that the wing stalls.

EDIT: Slots.

[clipsy1H]

did someone notice that Shumi in FP2, when he set personal best time, he have at first split 0,4 sec better time then Hamilton best, second split advantage is 0,1 sec, and at the end Shumi are slower then Hamilton. Did Shumi deliberately go slower after first split time?

i don't think so ... Michael set best time on Sector 1 25.055 faster then Hamilton with almost 0.100 but on sector 2 he lost 0.500 sec.

If Merc can do a better sector 2 they can be on pole this morning.

Michael was nearly .300 quicker in FP1 sector 2 so I can only guess a few things: Merc changed the setup for FP2, or he made a mistake in S2, or he deliberately did not use super DRS in this area to see what the time difference might be in this sector.

I doubt they changed the setup all that much really.

yea but still behind +0.458 in FP1. Sector 2 remains a problem for Mercedes and also Sector 3........
Maybe I'm pessimist but I don't think Mercedes can be in top 5-6 after qualifying

[atanatizante]

Is there an illusion or is the famous DRS duct?

[atanatizante]

... The two ducts in the chassis do not connect to any kind of ducting in the nose cone, they simple open up in to the nose cone void ...

In case they need to change the nose cone there are any drawbacks for this?

By any means the nose cone must be sealed to the chassis in order not to lose pressure, don`t you think?

[i70q7m7ghw]

... The two ducts in the chassis do not connect to any kind of ducting in the nose cone, they simple open up in to the nose cone void ...

In case they need to change the nose cone there are any drawbacks for this?

By any means the nose cone must be sealed to the chassis in order not to lose pressure, don`t you think?

Yes it would need to be sealed, that's what I think that extra piece on the end of the chassis is for, to seal void in the nose cone and prevent any air leaking in to the cockpit. The only place the air could go is out the front wing slots, or out the DRS-duct (when activated).

If it works a different way then we are missing some exits for this thing, because the 2010 f-duct requires 2 intakes and 2 exits.

[hardingfv32]

There are pictures of the FW slots, they exist. I'm proposing the DRS-duct is being used as an exit. Some air might still exit through the slots, but it'll do so at a lower velocity, such that the wing stalls.

Thanks for the photo. I am researching what is require from a fluid switch.

We still do not know if the pressure is positive or negative at the DRS hole which is a important component of your theory. Based on the existence of the side-plate louvers you would thing the the pressure is positive and that the flow is into the hole, not out.

Brian

[lombers]

yea but still behind +0.458 in FP1. Sector 2 remains a problem for Mercedes and also Sector 3........
Maybe I'm pessimist but I don't think Mercedes can be in top 5-6 after qualifying

I think they need to find a bit more downforce in this car, but it's ultra competitive as it currently stands.

Sector 2 is an interesting combination corners, 2 are slow speed but the rest are quite high. Which sector in Australia were the mercs slower in?