Pirelli 2013

[Huntresa]

He had 2 different types of broken tyres aswell, first one was like the one Hamilton had and last one just teared off from the inside wall.

Maybe he had a slow puncture on the one that teared right off?

[raymondu999]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106975

Pirelli believes debris was to blame for both of Felipe Massa's punctures....

[Hembrey said] "People are doubting that it was debris, and saying 'yeah you would say that, sure' ..."

Yeah, they would say that, sure..

Interesting that there's been debris all over the tracks for the last couple of years and we've seen nothing like this. This feels like something new. What is even more fascinating is the punishment the tyres can take and stay up - look how Perez carved a line into Button's tyre when they touched and that didn't deflate or explode - neither did Perez' tire when Kimi smacked it hard in Malaysia, neither did Webber's after smacking Vergne quite hard.

What kind of debris on track does worse damage than that??

Edit: typo

I'm not too sure it hasn't happened. Abu Dhabi 2011 springs to mind.

Given how Lewis suffered, and Massa twice, IMO the problem is too repeatable to be an effect of coincidence - the repeatability screams design to me. Or lack thereof.

[Dragonfly]

Well, how can ya call it a puncture when the tire isn't punctured and is still holding air!

I was thinking along the same lines. What's your opinion on the left front having less DF(broken FW) and the right rear having more load contributing to the tyre issue. I mention again because Rubens mentioned this as quite possibly being a contributing factor.

I wrote in the same line of thought on the previous page, about asymmetric loads due to reduced downforce at the diagonally opposite front left.

[timbo]

Wind tunnel tyres to blame for team struggles - report

Pirelli's new 60 per cent scale wind tunnel tyres could be to blame for some teams' troubles in 2013, according to a technical expert.
Top team McLaren faltered badly over the winter in switching from the winning 2012 car to the new and uncompetitive MP4-28.
And it's been a similar story at Williams and Sauber, who last year were among the standouts of the midfield and are now conspicuously scrambling for pace in 2013.
Referring to McLaren and Sauber, Swiss newspaper Blick's technical expert Mike Hammer writes: "Both teams now believe they know where the problem lies.
"It has to do with the new Pirelli tyres. They are more angular than in 2012, and then deform differently in the corners, which has a great influence on the aerodynamics.
"Millimetres play a role, but the 60 per cent tyre for the wind tunnel models have led McLaren and Sauber astray," he added.
An unnamed McLaren engineer agreed: "They (the Pirelli tyre models) are much worse than last year."
Faced with the latest criticism, Pirelli's Paul Hembery insisted: "We are talking about eleven teams with eleven different wind tunnels.
"It is not easy to build good 60 per cent tyres," he added.
The theory would explain why teams who made significant changes over the winter have disproportionately suffered so far this season.

More s**t from Pirelli

And yet other teams (and not only frontrunners, look at FI) made a progress with their cars. Talking about millimeters, we've seen cars with severe bodywork damage putting a robust performance.
In my country people say "bad dancer blame his shoes".

[Stradivarius]

In a zero-sum game it is not possible for someone to perform worse without someone else performing better. Unless you are talking about lap times compared to last year, which I believe are not comparable anyway due to the different tyres. I agree with you that those who don't perform well usually will blame something other than themselves, while those who perform well tend to want to keep things as they are. I just read that Kimi Raikkonen doesn't see any problems with the current tyres. Red Bull, however, wants the tyres to change, even though they are winning.

I think it is unfortunate in a technology competition like formula 1 that the results are so strongly affected by the tyres. If the tyres had been unchanged for a long time and if testing was allowed, it wouldn't be a problem because the teams would eventually learn how to use them. But Pirelli have changed the tyres every year so far (and I tend to think all the changes have been for the worse and that 2011 was the best seson tyre-wise) and the teams who struggle to make them work won't find a solution easily, unless they just get lucky. The 3 tests that take place before each season are done in non-representative temperatures and/or on a non-representative track. So the technology competition turns into a lottery instead. In Bahrain Vettel dominated and won with a massive margin. In the next race we may see him beaten by a massive margin and the way I see it, this is down to chance more than anything else. Skill and development still plays its part, but just like last year when we had 7 different winners in the first 7 races, chance plays a big part as well.

[timbo]

I think it is unfortunate in a technology competition like formula 1 that the results are so strongly affected by the tyres.

But wasn't it always like that? Remember 2003, 2005 seasons, remember the introduction of radial Michelins.
I remember that during GoodYear era there were less complaints, but it's not like everyone was always happy, and testing was unlimited and there was warm-up before the race.
As a fan I like racing last couple of years, and I prefer it over, say, 2009 season.

[Jersey Tom]

So now Pirelli are finally conceding these aren't just puncture or "debris" failures? Don't see how they could have defended that position to begin with.

[Cam]

The same way they've defended that no one complains about the tires. Honestly, a puncture on a tire that is still inflated? This is why it's difficult to believe anything they say.

[Stradivarius]

I think it is unfortunate in a technology competition like formula 1 that the results are so strongly affected by the tyres.

But wasn't it always like that? Remember 2003, 2005 seasons, remember the introduction of radial Michelins.
I remember that during GoodYear era there were less complaints, but it's not like everyone was always happy, and testing was unlimited and there was warm-up before the race.
As a fan I like racing last couple of years, and I prefer it over, say, 2009 season.

My main objection is not that the tyres influence the competition. The problem is that today's lack of in-season testing and the non-representative conditions under pre-season testing, combined with Pirellis need to make changes to the tires each year, makes it impossible for the teams to determine the optimal design with respect to the tires. The result of this is that instead of rewarding the most skilled team of engineers, it is the most lucky team that gets an advantage because their car just happens to work well with the setup that is required to make the tyres work. Since no one knew what was required to make the tyres work before they had some experience under relevant conditions, they couldn't take the tyres fully into account when designing the car. Now we may see the teams trying to develop and adapt to the tyres, but many constraints have already been fixed.

[timbo]

The problem is that today's lack of in-season testing and the non-representative conditions under pre-season testing, combined with Pirellis need to make changes to the tires each year, makes it impossible for the teams to determine the optimal design with respect to the tires. The result of this is that instead of rewarding the most skilled team of engineers, it is the most lucky team that gets an advantage because their car just happens to work well with the setup that is required to make the tyres work.

Fair point. However, we see that the same team still leads the championship as last 3 years, and apart from McLaren struggles (which remind last year Ferrari's) the top is pretty much the same. The variation in the mid-field is also nothing new or surprising.

[StrikeForceF1]

My main objection is not that the tyres influence the competition. The problem is that today's lack of in-season testing and the non-representative conditions under pre-season testing, combined with Pirellis need to make changes to the tires each year, makes it impossible for the teams to determine the optimal design with respect to the tires. The result of this is that instead of rewarding the most skilled team of engineers, it is the most lucky team that gets an advantage because their car just happens to work well with the setup that is required to make the tyres work. Since no one knew what was required to make the tyres work before they had some experience under relevant conditions, they couldn't take the tyres fully into account when designing the car. Now we may see the teams trying to develop and adapt to the tyres, but many constraints have already been fixed.

I do agree about the in season testing and its disadvantages coupled with the pre-season testing done in non-representative temps however I have a slightly different opinion on this, I think it is actually great that Pirelli are changing the compounds every year because the compounds don't change for one team only they change for all the teams. This puts all the teams back at the start point for the tyres. The teams have all been given the same chance to sample this years compounds last year in Brasil and most gave it positive ratings last year. Armed with that knowledge and the 60% models supplied by pirelli the teams design/build a car. Last year towards the end of the year Pirelli got conservative with there tyre choices and we seen the more durable tyres being brought to the races and coupled with the in-season learning and developement we seen a one team run away with victories and very little startegy involved, even though they were challenged I feel the challenge wasn't strong enough. Now that the tyres for this year is new and some teams did a better job than others, it seems that the better skilled team of engineers are getting just reward. Luck will always be a part of F1 and looking at tyres only as not allowing the best skilled team of engineers to get rewarded is simplistic. Many factors contribute to a teams sucess and it is not "the most lucky team that gets an advantage because their car just happens to work well with the setup that is required to make the tyres work." because a team designs a car to given set of constraints. They either design it taking the right set of constrains into account or they design it taking some of the wrong set of contraints into account, they don't luck into a design, I don't believe that. What I think would be unfair is if Pirelli decide to change compaounds and go harder/more conservative bucking to pressure by some teams, than that would be unfair as it would serve those teams best interests as they may have not done the best job, and disadvantage the teams who have done the best job up till now. Remember it is in, the teams that are calling for a change, best interests to utterly dominate the sport have no given care that the racing turns processional as they would win everything. But what would be fair is Pirelli reviewing the compounds and making some slight adjutments to the compounds/design/ construction on the grounds of safety. There would still be some disadvantage issues with this as well but on the whole I think so long as the fundemental characteristics of the tyre are not altered significantly than no - one can really cry foul.

[astracrazy]

according to Brundle (in his Sky Blog) there is talk the Hard tyres they will be bringing will be 2012 spec

[dxpetrov]

according to Brundle (in his Sky Blog) there is talk the Hard tyres they will be bringing will be 2012 spec

Ok, try again now... ???

[SamH123]

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/new ... sert-storm

"There was a tense-looking meeting between some teams and Pirelli on Sunday morning and I suspect that the compounds will head towards more cautious territory through the year, and that the hard compound tyre in Barcelona will be back to the 2012 spec."

Is he actually talking sense though? I thought the tires were really quite different, surely some teams might complain?

[raymondu999]

Perhaps he means the compound, rather than the tyre, reverting to 2012 spec.