Pirelli 2013

[astracrazy]

what do they mean by that

[turbof1]

Sorry, but that's obviously a weak attempt to get the jury on his side. He is refering to the comments of Brawn about the collected data. Although not doing Brawn any favours, it isn't decisive and the fia have their case undermined by not atleast trying to claim it was a mercedes test instead of a pirelli one

[astracrazy]

clutching at straws it seems

[turbof1]

The FIA QC keeps repeating that charley whiting has no juristiction. The problem though is that charley first checked in with the in-house legal department, and I can guess their word does count for something. Also the hampering on "exemption" is really getting annoying. This isn't an exemption. This is effectively a third party testing with material of a team. The rule do not specify anything about that and so the whole affair doesn't look to be in breach with the rules.

[xpensive]

Totally ridiculous, if MGP gets off with that, it will obviously be an afterconstruction by the FIA not to anger Daimler.

The entire idea was to give MGP three race-distances worth of testing, all in order to catch up with the top teams.

Which they did, the three-pointed star is MrE's biggest asset after Ferrari, they must stay at all costs.

[turbof1]

Also the QC claims pirelli is confused and is subject to the sporting rules. It isn't backed up by any reference. Earlier there was a vague one where the supplier has to keep things fair. Still nothing decisive. Pirelli signed a contract, and unless the contract states pirelli is bound to the sporting rules, the fia has no jurisdiction over them.

[astracrazy]

Totally ridiculous, if MGP gets off with that, it will obviously be an afterconstruction by the FIA not to anger Daimler.

The entire idea was to give MGP three race-distances worth of testing, all in order to catch up with the top teams.

Which they did, the three-pointed star is MrE's biggest asset after Ferrari, they must stay at all costs.

i don't get what your on about?

i think your trying to say the fia are mucking it up on purpose? which isn't the case, they tried to stike a deal with merc if they pleaded guilty. they refused, and we are seeing why. because on the face of it, merc haven't broke any rules. or atleast thats what is starting to appear

[stefan_]

The hearing has ended and we will have the decision tomorrow.

[Phil]

Seems like Harris is a backtracking a little now, saying that if the tribunal finds them in breach of article 22.4, that they want to point out that they [Mercedes] did everything within its ability to check if the test was legal (by clarifying it through Charlie). He goes on to say, if Charlie had said "no, the tests would be deemed illegal, they logically would not have run". He goes on to the say that it was not a secret test, that the motorhomes stayed put after the Spanish GP and that the cars were driven with their original paint. He concedes that it wasn't clever to have the drivers race with black helmets.

He also goes on to say that if the court deems they have breached regulations and finds them guilty, that they appologise and will learn from it. He wants to point out that Mercedes acted that they were doing something to help with safety and that the sportsmanship and integrity is very important to Daimler. If they are punishable, they should only receive a reprimand - or he later suggests, ban them from the Young Drivers Test in July, as in that test, the information any team gains is more significant than what they could have gained from the Pirelli test.

[WhiteBlue]

“There cannot be a sanction without any solid legal grounding and Pirelli cannot accept and will not accept its image, quality of products, or credibility being tarnished because of a case that is not admissible and is unfounded,”

“I hope the decision you take will appease the tensions and will allow parties to come together and decide on rules, referring to tyre testing in F1. It is absolutely urgent and imperative to do so.”

In my view there is some truth in this. Mercedes may have gained some relatively small advantages by supporting the Pirelli test with their current cars and drivers, but they did it in good faith and because the competitors made life very difficult for Pirelli. The FiA should take some of the blame for its unhelpful communication in that case.

I still think the best solution to this mess is giving Mercedes a symbolic punishment to indicate that you cannot exploit that loop hole again and change the testing rules to guaranty that the tyre supplier will get the necessary testing in a fair and equitable way in the future.

[astracrazy]

i'm not sure its backtracking i'd say they are saying, look we done everything we could to make sure we could do this test and we have presented it all today. If you find us guilty then please bare in mind the steps we took and the reasons why we believed we could run a test

quiet a decent closing statement really

i don't think you can punish someone for finding a loophole, its the fia's faults its there.

[Dyanxx]

Totally ridiculous, if MGP gets off with that, it will obviously be an afterconstruction by the FIA not to anger Daimler.

The entire idea was to give MGP three race-distances worth of testing, all in order to catch up with the top teams.

Which they did, the three-pointed star is MrE's biggest asset after Ferrari, they must stay at all costs.

Uhh no, Mercedes were asked by Pirelli to test the new tyres, so they agreed, Red Bull were asked but declined, so it's not like this test was only to help out Mercedes, that's ridiculous.

[SiLo]

It all comes down to which set of rules are applicable. If Pirelli ran the test, Mercedes did nothing wrong, if Mercedes ran the test, then they broke the rules. Simple as.

Currently it looks like the FIA don't have a leg to stand on since an in house legal team said "Yeah, that's cool" to Mercedes. If they don't get reprimanded and the loop-hole is closed, will other teams feel hard done by? Most likely.

Personally I think Mercedes did nothing wrong technically, although it was treading a fine line but when it comes down to it, Pirelli arranged the test, ran the test and collected the data. The only way they could really put it beyond doubt is if Pirelli ran it's own test drivers instead of Mercedes using Hamilton and Rosberg.

[Huntresa]

FIA needs to keep better track of their lawyers i assume after this ---, cause if a legal department of a corporation answer my question and its an answer i like i would ofc move forward with what i was doing.

Thats clearly what has happend here.

[CHIUNDA]

i'm not sure its backtracking i'd say they are saying, look we done everything we could to make sure we could do this test and we have presented it all today. If you find us guilty then please bare in mind the steps we took and the reasons why we believed we could run a test

quiet a decent closing statement really

i don't think you can punish someone for finding a loophole, its the fia's faults its there.

It is even worse than that ... Mercedes were not looking for the loophole.