2016 Belgian Grand Prix - Fri 26 – Sun 28 Aug 2016

[LionKing]

Villeneuve on Verstappen:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ville ... ia-811480/

“The issue is the FIA, because it looks like he's got protection,” Villeneuve told Motorsport.com. “They want him to be a star.
"Look in Germany. He weaved on the straight, so Nico [Rosberg] missed his braking [point]. They go a bit wide – Nico gets a penalty. For something even less than… and it wasn't even his fault.
“So there is something that is wrong. I don't know. It's something that makes me angry, but that's just the way it is. Twenty years ago someone would have put him in a tree.”

Unacceptable driving. Villeneuve has not been won over by Verstappen's rapid rise up the ranks in F1 – and claimed that what he did in Belgium was simply 'unacceptable'.

“It's way too much," he added. "The start is racing. It's too much, but it's racing. Because every expert driver, that's like GP2, you know that if you go to inside there will be an incident, because there is not enough room. You know it.
“Mostly if you had a bad start, just accept it. But that is not what's bad. It's after that, he complains about other drivers: 'They destroyed my race'.
"Relax, relax. You know you took a big risk and it did not pay off. You destroyed their race and you destroyed your own race. That's fine. That's life.

“But what he did afterwards that's not acceptable. What he did to Kimi twice on the straight, and to Vettel as well. Just calm down. You're going to kill someone.”
"You can't just push people off. Or make them have to brake on the straight. That's super, super, super dangerous. Twenty years ago drivers fixed it among themselves.”

[Pierce89]

Had an hour watched an hour. I'm glad to see that F1 is still a sham and a farce. How on earth didn't Verstappen get a drive-through for this double move at high speed ? Only Charlie Whiting and the paddlers of fiction he obliges know. That was as dangerous and illegal as it gets. Of course he created it himself by making a mistake at Eau Rouge. First one when he pushed Raikkonen off was nice too.

Speaking of paddlers of fiction, it's funny to see how reporting is trying again to spin it into 'aggressiveness' instead of describing it for what it was, no skills amateurish driving. On top of that he blamed Raikkonen after stupid dive at the start which shows that he doesn't know how corners work. Verstappen is basic as hell, panics under pressure and learns nothing. Good, even cheating from fellow kids Charlie and Bernie can't carry him forever. RB would have to take care of Ricciardo's one lap speed.

Yes we know, Ricciardo and Rosberg are the two greatest drivers of all time. Oops! Sorry, I didn't notice you deviated from your normal routine of telling us how Rosberg and Ricciardo are gods that the other drivers should be giving blood sacrifices to. Well, on second thought you have spent a lot of time deciding their teammates, so I guess you didn't give off message after all. You could probably find a good job in the Trump campaign.

[dans79]

Just accept that the only really bad move was on the straight (les combes is much more ambivalent IMO), that you don't like the guy and get over it. *sigh*

If you go back and read what I have posted in this thread, you will see I have never mentioned turn one, as it was a racing accident in my opinion. However, his reactionary blocking at les combes, and similar moves in Hungary etc, are going to get someone seriously injured.

[Shakeman]

The F1 authorities should nip VES's dangerous driving in the bud this year, next year with the much greater speeds would not be the time to have a cocky so-in-so swerving about in the braking zones or anywhere else for that matter.

Grosjean, to his credit, learned very quickly that hooning about at F1 speeds is not on.

If Markko was anything like the 'coach' that is claimed he'd have a very strong word in the lad's ear and get him to buck his ideas up because next year the amount of energy in a collision is an awful lot higher.

[dans79]

Villeneuve on Verstappen:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ville ... ia-811480/

“But what he did afterwards that's not acceptable. What he did to Kimi twice on the straight, and to Vettel as well. Just calm down. You're going to kill someone.”

I can't wait to hear the discombobulated retorts to this.

[sosic2121]

Villeneuve on Verstappen:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ville ... ia-811480/

“But what he did afterwards that's not acceptable. What he did to Kimi twice on the straight, and to Vettel as well. Just calm down. You're going to kill someone.”

I can't wait to hear the discombobulated retorts to this.

"The start is racing. It's too much, but it's racing. Because every expert driver, that's like GP2, you know that if you go to inside there will be an incident, because there is not enough room. You know it."
Well, if he wasn't rushed into F1 to win 100 GPs and 10 championships maybe he would know.

[NL_Fer]

Total other question. Button started 8th. How did he crash with a Manor?

[PlatinumZealot]

Villeneuve on Verstappen:
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ville ... ia-811480/

“The issue is the FIA, because it looks like he's got protection,” Villeneuve told Motorsport.com. “They want him to be a star.
"Look in Germany. He weaved on the straight, so Nico [Rosberg] missed his braking [point]. They go a bit wide – Nico gets a penalty. For something even less than… and it wasn't even his fault.
“So there is something that is wrong. I don't know. It's something that makes me angry, but that's just the way it is. Twenty years ago someone would have put him in a tree.”

Unacceptable driving. Villeneuve has not been won over by Verstappen's rapid rise up the ranks in F1 – and claimed that what he did in Belgium was simply 'unacceptable'.

“It's way too much," he added. "The start is racing. It's too much, but it's racing. Because every expert driver, that's like GP2, you know that if you go to inside there will be an incident, because there is not enough room. You know it.
“Mostly if you had a bad start, just accept it. But that is not what's bad. It's after that, he complains about other drivers: 'They destroyed my race'.
"Relax, relax. You know you took a big risk and it did not pay off. You destroyed their race and you destroyed your own race. That's fine. That's life.

“But what he did afterwards that's not acceptable. What he did to Kimi twice on the straight, and to Vettel as well. Just calm down. You're going to kill someone.”
"You can't just push people off. Or make them have to brake on the straight. That's super, super, super dangerous. Twenty years ago drivers fixed it among themselves.”

I know he's just 18 years old, but in racing years he is in his 2nd year... erm. I think two aggressive drivers that set the F1 world alight, Max and Lewis in their first and second years really pushed the limits. The difference is that Lewis was more controlled in his maneuvers and never openly admit an intention "run people off the track" like Max does. Max actually reminds me a lot of Michael on the track, very ruthless. I actually like that we have a character like him in the sport as off-putting as his impetuous nature is to some.

[foxmulder_ms]

He doesn't have the Michael's speed though... lol.. He cannot even beat Ricciardo so vest is just a joke. His "moves" with Raikkonen are absolutely dangerous.

[Wynters]

Total other question. Button started 8th. How did he crash with a Manor?

Palmer went off in front of Button at the right hander, then rejoined immediately before the apex of the following left forcing Button to slow and swing wide...right into Wehrlein's path. Part of me thinks that Pascal should have seen it coming but he was fighting hard for position at a track where an excellent performance would get Manor vital points and, really, Palmer drove back onto the track without caring what the impact would be. It was a racing incident but Palmer's fault.

[Powy]

Here is an interesting video:

Defending Your Position vs. Blocking

[Fulcrum]

Look what I found.

Back in 2014, Max Verstappen was still in F3. This race was also at Spa. He was leading the race with Auer closing in on him in the latter stages (final lap). Skip to 48:09 minute mark. Watch and say deja vu. Only difference is that F3 cars don't go as fast as F1. He just did almost the same move on Kimi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5v5K1o_57g

Excuse the MS Paint hackjob. I can't believe stewards would allow this to go unpunished.



Verstappen may think his reactions are good enough to block like this, but the reality is he only starts his movement once Auer is already a 3rd of a car's width into his. Auer has moved by a half car's width by the time Verstappen's steering input has started to make a change of direction evident, leaving Auer with no choice but to back out or have a huge accident.

I think it's pretty clear this child won't learn unless he is schooled; be it by the FIA, the GPDA, or someone else. At the moment he hides behind the banner of, "I wasn't penalised, therefore I did nothing wrong." That's the type of self-validation I don't appreciate. It has the hallmarks of, "I haven't done anything wrong, because I haven't been caught." Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence; and in this case, we even have some evidence.

If the rules allow for this sort of thing, I think they should be changed. If they don't, I can't fathom why they are not being enforced properly. It makes for contentious TV and fanboy slanging matches after a race, but how many of us will be enjoying the aftermath when someone goes home in a body bag, be it a driver, official, or spectator? Does Verstappen understand this concept? Is it worth wilfully endangering the life of his fellow competitors to defend zero points, as it proved this weekend?

How does this correlate with the FIA's road safety campaign? Do we want young and impressionable people watching this and considering it acceptable sporting behaviour?

Further, this sort of acceptability argument, because of Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, etc... It's a dangerous precedent that simply results in accepted norms 'moving' to accommodate the new 'line' of punished vs. not punished driving styles. We've seen this happen with drivers pushing each other off circuit on the exit of corners.

Pushing cars off track on the exit of a corner is one thing; at least the speeds are lower, there is more time to react, the catchment zones are there to cushion the accident, or there is plentiful runoff and no lasting penalty. None of these are the case on a straight.

[strad]

Since Seb hit Kimi first. I would suggest that the incident was Sebs fault. I feel that Seb would have hit Kimi even if Max wasn't down the inside.

+100
Seb has decided he is the top dog and can do as he pleases.
His complaints against Max are all too reminiscent of Senna complaining about Alesi in Phoenix.
Who is this rookie who dares to race me. Does he know who I am? The ego is wayyyyyy too big.

[dans79]

It makes for contentious TV and fanboy slanging matches after a race, but how many of us will be enjoying the aftermath when someone goes home in a body bag, be it a driver, official, or spectator? Does Verstappen understand this concept? Is it worth wilfully endangering the life of his fellow competitors to defend zero points, as it proved this weekend?

Maybe it's a problem within the RBR junior driving program, Marko seems to pound into them results are all that matters........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL6QxhSupAY&t=19s

[Manoah2u]

it was clear vettel cut them off, if vettel had not cut them that sharp NOBODY would have been hit, and everybody came out unscarred and max praised for his daring move, though kimi would have still kept in front of him afterwards. stop blaming max for vettel's fault, really. Exegaration over the top. Complaining how F1 has become a wuss sport, but the biggest wussies are the supposed fans that scream blood and murder when the glory days action happens on track instead of boring i have no b*lls and will use DRS like a wuss. Senna a hero, Schumacher a hero, Mansell a hero, all did exactly the same. and again, the fault was not with max, the fault was with seb vettel slamming into his own teammate for crying out loud. he probably would even had that 2nd place if he went a bit more wide, he had great traction in the corner and would have been right on the tail of Nico Rosberg.

Meanwhile , nobody noticing how awful DannyRic's start was?