2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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dans79
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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dobbster71 wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:22 pm
It could be that Ferrari choose to rotate their TC's after a stipulated number of hours use, then get them inspected for fatigue, etc. After this they are put back into the pool to be used again. This approach would help limit unexpected failures or indeed highlight any design or production failings.
IMO two issue exist with this line of thinking.

1. If A team wants to avoid penalties, components need to average 5 race weekends. Ideally you want them to last even longer so you have a safety margin. Being on the 3rd turbo after 3 races is not a good sign no matter how Ferrari wants to spin it, as it shows they are unsure of their own reliability.

2. As GPR-A said, the real problem, is that they are severely hampering their ability to bring upgrades. At this point if they have a turbo upgrade in the works, they only get one upgraded unit before taking penalties. And, It's not just a factory team issue either, as HASS is doing the same thing.
Kevin Magnussen taking their second and Romain Grosjean his third.
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dans79
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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dobbster71 wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:54 pm
So, by definition, Ferrari could take a TC or 2 or 3 out of the "pool", redesign or modify them, then put them back into the "pool" again. Aren't teams only penalised if they scrap components due to failure?
That's not my understanding. It's my understanding that once a component has been used, its not allowed to be modified in anyway.
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dobbster71
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Hmmm...I'm not so sure! Maybe it is Ferrari spin but the team seems ok with the situation, as quoted in Autosport:

"The team indicated in a statement it was relaxed about its turbo count at this stage of the season.

"Replacing a turbo, or any other component, does not necessarily mean that you're scrapping the previous one, even more so when you are allowed 'free' updates, as the regs stipulate this year.

"So as long as you don't use more than four elements for each designed PU component, you're basically free to do [swaps] at your leisure."

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
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BanMeToo
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Disappointed to hear that the live timing is still ---. How is it possible for them to have screwed it up so badly? Might have to buy the stupid app at some point......

Also, feeling poorly about the Ferrari PU component usage. Surely this will hurt them later in the season. Ham and Bot are way far ahead. (every Merc team is, actually)

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/28/v ... omponents/

mani517
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Regarding the Turbo situation at Ferrari, there can be 3 possibilities

1) Perhaps, Ferrari is just maximizing its chances before Merc's (and potentially RB's) major upgrade. They have bit of an upper hand with the downforce and tyre understanding now, probably, giving it a boost with the best possible PU combo they can.

2) Bahrain and Sochi are tracks that stress the engine in different ways, may be, Ferrari is just playing the game its way to get the maximum out of the engine with minimum possible stress.

3) Or Kimi's issue in Bahrain FP showed some turbo weakness and they are saving their PU struggles (and the penalties that come with it) for the later part of the season.

Only Ferari knows the reality. But, in all of these cases, we can say one thing "for sure" (it is a Ferrari word, isn't it?) -- irrespective of how the in-season development pans out Ferrari have arguably given themselves a good chance to keep-up with or beat Mercedes in the first fly-away races.

NOTE: Haas is probably mirroring Ferrari's tactics (with such a close mid-field, Haas probably is grateful that Ferrari is in relatively similar situation with Mercedes -- the new found competitiveness which MAY or MAY NOT last the whole season)

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:07 pm
dobbster71 wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:54 pm
So, by definition, Ferrari could take a TC or 2 or 3 out of the "pool", redesign or modify them, then put them back into the "pool" again. Aren't teams only penalised if they scrap components due to failure?
That's not my understanding. It's my understanding that once a component has been used, its not allowed to be modified in anyway.
+1

This would be my understanding too. If teams are allowed to modify used parts without penalty, what is the point of the 4 PU limit? It would mean parts could be made to last longer with small spec updates to an already used part.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Phil
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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so AMuS FP2 analysis (http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 16464.html) is that

- Mercedes look fast on the US (long run) in the hands of Bottas (.3 faster than Vettel)
- Ferrari look very fast on the SS (long run) where VET was about a second quicker than Ham (but drove less laps)
- Mercedes seem to be more focused on race-pace, e.g. trying not to drive the tires as aggressively which would make them overheat during the race
- Hamilton says that the US have an extremely narrow ideal range (in the Mercedes at least).
- RedBull nowhere. When the fronts get into temperature range, the rears are already over etc.

Regarding QF pace: Given that the US are that difficult to get into the working range - at least Hamilton never had a genuine go, given he failed to get them into that range. He was either too slow, then he locked up and when they did finally get them into a working range etc. I think QF is gonna be close as usual and the race as well.

Bottas might be tough cookie to beat around here too I feel.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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ChrisDanger
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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LookBackTime
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Average lap times of long runs from AMUS!

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 16464.html

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Bill_Kar
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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It really disturbs me curious-wise how Mercedes did a huge turn towards race-pace.Now Merc bothers to rise tyre temp and their tyre-window temp is narrow?And what impact will this have in Q tomorrow?
As far I can see, Hamilton won't beat Bottas and Ι won't be surprised if he starts from third.Unless of course his setup issues are that massive and so he could comeback tomorrow, at least beating Vettel.

matt_b
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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This practice session reminds me of that infamous Singapore weekend where mercedes couldn't get those tyres working, they still got time to find a solution but it needs to be quick, time will tell.

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Maybe Bottas and Hamilton were running different setups in order to analyse what effect it has on the tires....?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Bill_Kar
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Phil wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:21 pm
Maybe Bottas and Hamilton were running different setups in order to analyse what effect it has on the tires....?
That is the optimistic side of the coin.
The consensus is that there has been a switch to different strategy, that of focusing on race pace.Like Ferrari I'd say.Bottas' brilliant pace is a good sign, it indirectly implies that it may works

edu2703
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Midfield long run comparison

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fiohaa
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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whoever designed sochi needs a dressing down. Its got to be the worst track on the calendar surely?
so insanely dull. if its Tilke, you'd have thought he'd have learnt from previous tracks.