Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by PlatinumZealot » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:30 pm

dren wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:57 pm

Wouldn't more air dissipate more heat from both?
Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:15 pm
I think it's generally accepted that they are cooling the rear tyres, not heating them.
Do you remember what tyre problems Mercedes had over the year?
Who had blistering, who had graining? Any other issues?

I have my reason why I think it is designed for heating.. I am glad to be proven wrong, but lets work it out scientifically.
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dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by dren » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:53 pm

I would assume the larger air duct would pull more air in, which would increase cooling. The wheel nubs should work to dissipate heat, like the fins on an air cooled engine; increase in surface area for contact with cooler air. Hamilton looked to have to warm up his tires more during the safety car period in the race where the upgrade was delivered.
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M840TR
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by M840TR » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:21 pm

The car's tyre issues have been mostly related to blistering in the past which occurs when tyre surface overheats. The new wheel rim helping to heat up tyre core makes sense as it coincides with reducing the usage of tyre blankets for warmup or removing it early to let the surface cool.

dans79
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by dans79 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:51 pm

Honestly, I think Mercedes is working the problem from both sides. At some tracks they need to heat the tires, while at others they need to cool them. If you have a set-up options that will let you do both, you will have and advantage over the other teams.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:25 pm

PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:30 pm


I have my reason why I think it is designed for heating.. I am glad to be proven wrong, but lets work it out scientifically.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13881 ... d-mercedes
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dren
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by dren » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:31 pm

M840TR wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:21 pm
The car's tyre issues have been mostly related to blistering in the past which occurs when tyre surface overheats. The new wheel rim helping to heat up tyre core makes sense as it coincides with reducing the usage of tyre blankets for warmup or removing it early to let the surface cool.
Mercedes also said the performance was always there in parts of Singapore but they couldn't keep the tires in the right range to sustain the performance. With the update they could.
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dans79
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by dans79 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:26 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:25 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:30 pm


I have my reason why I think it is designed for heating.. I am glad to be proven wrong, but lets work it out scientifically.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13881 ... d-mercedes
I think they have the potential to use it for both, depending on the size of the intakes, rims used, ducting, and internal ducting of the can.

JasonF1
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by JasonF1 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 pm

This is intriguing: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/sorpr ... i/3186153/

Could Mercedes be using a passive rear wheel steering?

The interesting bits:
Mercedes has since always won: if Monza was in the ropes of the team of Brackley, we can not say the same for Singapore, a track that has always exalted the qualities of Ferrari. And now it seems to dominate also in Sochi, revealing a supremacy in the slow corners and also in those in counter-tendency.

In the Singapore grid, our Giorgio Piola had discovered the new rear brake baskets that allowed, together with the new OZ Racing rims, to avoid overheating of the rear tires, finding a perfect balance of the silver arrow which, on the contrary, has always suffered of the different behavior of the tires between the two axles.

In Sochi another piece of truth emerged: Mercedes introduced a different rear suspension. The modifications are not easily visible because they concern the kinematisms that remain hidden in the gearbox. The Stella team has a hydraulic control system, thanks to which it tries to control the shaking and the height.

But the engineers headed by James Allison seem to have managed to go further, simulating the behavior of the Mercedes in the rear as if it had the rear steering wheels. We use the term simulation because the use of this system is banned by the regulations.

The idea was developed on the Benetton B193B, an experimental single-seater that had tested the four-wheel steering with Michael Schumacher during the free practice of the Japanese GP, but were never adopted in the race.

How can the effects of steering wheels be achieved? Combining the good operation of the hydraulic suspension with the brake by wire, the differential and some engine functions.

Ferrari has lost something of engine (the FIA ​​continues to keep an eye on the power unit of the Cavallino), but Mercedes has made a major jump from Singapore onwards, recovering a technical supremacy that the team of the Cavallino had managed to conquer with the nails in an exciting comeback. The FIA ​​controls the Red with frequency, because it does not even take a look at the silver arrow ...

Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by Just_a_fan » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:24 pm

JasonF1 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 pm
This is intriguing: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/sorpr ... i/3186153/
Sounds like an Italian site trying to get the FIA to put Mercedes under the microscope...
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cooken
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by cooken » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:17 pm

JasonF1 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 pm
The modifications are not easily visible because they concern the kinematisms that remain hidden in the gearbox.
What does this even mean? The thing we are suggesting is not easy to see because you can't see it? So what exactly has tipped them off? Seems like this is pure fabrication based on zero evidence.

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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by PhillipM » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:37 pm

JasonF1 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 pm

Could Mercedes be using a passive rear wheel steering?
All teams use passive rear wheel steering, have for decades

jh199
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by jh199 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:12 pm

PhillipM wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:37 pm
JasonF1 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 pm

Could Mercedes be using a passive rear wheel steering?
All teams use passive rear wheel steering, have for decades
How? Suspension geometry turning the wheels in compression or something more devious? I've never heard of this before, at least, nothing credible thus far

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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by F1Krof » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:18 pm

jh199 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:12 pm
PhillipM wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:37 pm
JasonF1 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:21 pm

Could Mercedes be using a passive rear wheel steering?
All teams use passive rear wheel steering, have for decades
How? Suspension geometry turning the wheels in compression or something more devious? I've never heard of this before, at least, nothing credible thus far
I think what it's meant is the geometry of TOE-IN changes slightly and also the wheel rolls through differential setups.
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PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by PhillipM » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:22 pm

jh199 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:12 pm
How? Suspension geometry turning the wheels in compression or something more devious? I've never heard of this before, at least, nothing credible thus far
That and changes under load. It's not exactly rocket science.

subcritical71
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Re: Mercedes AMG F1 W09 EQ Power+

Post by subcritical71 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:32 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:31 pm
The last sentence is quite interesting. :) And I tend to agree. When was the last time a (major) thing on the Mercedes was investigated? As if it was a matter of course that this car is perfectly legal with every tiny bit on it. Let's see, if this rear wheel steering rumour will be looked at furthermore - I suspect not at all.

Speaking of the FIA and their weird behaviour, bit off-topic, how can the Ferrari suddenly lose power when it's engine and the "tricks" they have been doing for many months have been told to be legal every time? :roll:
It is interesting about the suspected rear steering is mentioned around the same time Vettel was 'kicking the tires' of the Merc. Also interesting that that article only exists on motorsports.com in the Italian language. But trying to decipher the translation it almost makes it sound like they are describing the off throttle diff lock otherwise I don't think you can get braking action from different corners of the car through the brakes or MGU-K. Maybe they have a way to setup the rear tires so that while cornering there is more friction through the tires to the asphalt therefore causing the car to rotate better, but this sounds like a long stretch as doing that with the tires would surely cause overheating and premature wear.