2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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turbof1 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:20 pm
WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:10 pm
Sierra117 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:53 am


Amusingly, he says he hopes not to find Ocon in the paddock, then proceeds to look for him himself ... kid needs someone in his corner who can keep his head cool.
Well tbh, Max' behaviour can shine a light on his growth and his potential. Yes, he's quick and can win races, but if he keeps making mistakes without a Championship on the line, imagine if he's in Championship contention... and he recklessly punts other Championship contenders off the track due to pressure. What will happen then? It's his 4th season for god sakes...

Honestly, I thought he could cope well under pressure, but this season the race in COTA I noticed him making a mistake due to pressure when Lewis wasn't even attempting an overtake at all that very moment in the latter stages of the race.
In all honesty, there's too much fuss being made about the gravity of the error. Hamilton in 2011 was making more mistakes and that was his 5th season. The most important thing is that Verstappen reflects on it, and maybe should also push for a clarification. Unlapping happens rarely, and it's not clear beyond "a driver is allowed to unlap him- or herself" what is allowed and not allowed. Clearly the normal rules don't apply, but what does?
Pirelli making better tires, so drivers don't need to manage them to go the distance.

sosic2121
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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zeph wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:09 am
sosic2121 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:11 am
nzjrs wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:09 pm


Video of Ocon hunting down Verstappen

https://streamable.com/0bynn
Dear lord!

I think penalty was appropriate, but they gave it to the wrong guy #-o

Max even defend the inside against a lapped car! ROFL
That’s my view as well. I don’t know how you can watch that video and conclude otherwise. Ocon made a credible passing move and Verstappen unnecessarily shut the door on him.

Ocon needed to maximize the pace on his fresh tires and Verstappen should have just let him through, he wasn’t racing him.

I thought they were both at fault, but now I’m inclined to lay the blame squarely on Verstappen.
That is exactly how I felt after watching a video.
First max made a monza type decision - I don't care if I'm not racing you, you're not getting by.
Then he made a Suzuka type of decision - I don't care if you're next to me and you would like some space, I'm taking the race line.

And than he made a decision he made many times before(Spa 2016...): I don't care if you are WDCx5, I'm right and you know ---.

After that Horner and Marko made same decision they have been doing for last 10 years - someone touched our little brat, how dare they.

And finally, FIA made their 2 tier formula decision.

So, this changes nothing.

Brake Horse Power
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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In an interview with Dutch news site "The Speld" Ocon clarified he "wanted to win the race".

"After Max verstappen I only had to overtake another 14 drivers, my tires were fresh and victory was close.. And then Max cut my corner. It is unbelievable. It is fair that he has to do 2 days of public service. "

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqFAfVOBLBp ... hare_sheet

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Diesel wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:05 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:20 pm
In all honesty, there's too much fuss being made about the gravity of the error. Hamilton in 2011 was making more mistakes and that was his 5th season. The most important thing is that Verstappen reflects on it, and maybe should also push for a clarification. Unlapping happens rarely, and it's not clear beyond "a driver is allowed to unlap him- or herself" what is allowed and not allowed. Clearly the normal rules don't apply, but what does?
A few options to stop this happening going forwards:
  • No more blue flags, lead drivers race lapped drivers, all normal racing rules apply.
  • No more lapped drivers, as soon as a car is lapped the race is over for them, return to the pits.
  • Blue flags for lead drivers, if a lapped car is quicker the lead cars are given blue flags (or perhaps a variant, blue with a yellow stripe?)
Thoughts?
I think the second is a no-go. That would lead to a loss of the spectable as less cars will be in competition nearer the end of the race. No more blue flags could work, but I think it will be viewed as unfair/unnecessary hold up. I think the 3th is the best option.
#AeroFrodo

DutchDopey
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I don't agree with the Ocon was faster statement. This statement is only based on the previous round sectors 1 and 3, in sector 2 Max was faster. With sector 1 and 2 Ocon having some DRS advantage. Some say also slipstream advantage. With a lap behind there is no reason to think Ocon was faster, and for the moment itself it was clearly DRS that enabled the move of Ocon.

Now on the tires, some say Ocon wanted to make the best of his new tires. This is not correct, when you start pushing right out of the pit you kill your tires. Ocon still had more than 25 laps to go, if you want a good result you don't go burn up your tires right at the start. So pushing to go after Max would have a negative effect on the race result for Ocon.

And this is what fuels the Mercedes conspiracy, why did Ocon push so hard from the pit, killing his tires instead of trying to get a good race result. I don't believe the conspiracy, I think there is another reason, namely the history between Ocon and Max and the frustration of Ocon with his current situation.

In conclusion, Ocon had no reason to be there other than to hinder to Max.

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nzjrs
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Brake Horse Power wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:11 pm
In an interview with Dutch news site "The Speld" Ocon clarified he "wanted to win the race".

"After Max verstappen I only had to overtake another 14 drivers, my tires were fresh and victory was close.. And then Max cut my corner. It is unbelievable. It is fair that he has to do 2 days of public service. "

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqFAfVOBLBp ... hare_sheet
You know this is satire, right?

Webber2011
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I think it's about time we all realized Max is nothing more than Vettel 2.0

Vettel was trained up by the red bull Juggernaut to win Championships, and he did so very well.
But it only happened because he was babied by the team, and left to feel invincible and could do no wrong.
He was quite immature, and to be honest, I think still is considering his age and experience, and that's all Red Bull's fault.
Look at him now.
He could maybe have 6 Championships under his belt if not for his temper.

I can't count the amount of times Verstappen has reminded me of Sebastian Vettel.

And its all to do with Horner and Marko, and how they run things.
They will continue to do the same with Max because it's a proven chance at major success and I guess you can't blame them for that.

But it's all getting a bit silly now .

Brake Horse Power
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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How much quiker would Ocon have gone after passing Max? Now Ocon had DRS to close the gap.. Or would Max have driven in dirty air just behind Ocon for a lot of laps? The last thing is not what you want, but what might be the situation after unlapping. However with Ocon staying close behind the race leader it would have enabled Hamiltons DRS sooner which could have gave him a competetive advantage,. Rare and difficult situation. I can understand from Max point of view he didn't want to be behind Ocon, probably both their moves were not so clever..

Brake Horse Power
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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nzjrs wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:19 pm
Brake Horse Power wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:11 pm
In an interview with Dutch news site "The Speld" Ocon clarified he "wanted to win the race".

"After Max verstappen I only had to overtake another 14 drivers, my tires were fresh and victory was close.. And then Max cut my corner. It is unbelievable. It is fair that he has to do 2 days of public service. "

https://www.instagram.com/p/BqFAfVOBLBp ... hare_sheet
You know this is satire, right?
:-$ :D

santos
santos
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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It would be funny to see Max getting home and furios… telling to his father that backmarkers are assholes when take out of the race the car that is leading. At the same time, someone is calling him on the phone. And it is Juan Pablo Montoya...

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GPR-A
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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turbof1 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:12 pm
I think the second is a no-go. That would lead to a loss of the spectable as less cars will be in competition nearer the end of the race. No more blue flags could work, but I think it will be viewed as unfair/unnecessary hold up. I think the 3th is the best option.
Sorry no offence, but what is the spectacle they are adding to? The only excitement they provide is when they crash and bring Safety Car, which adds to a bit of drama. If that is the purpose they drive to serve, may be it isn't such a big deal to send to them to pits when they get blue flags.

alexx_88
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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It's clear cut and it's sad to see the stewards not enforcing racing rules as they should be. Esteban did everything by the book and the only reason why the FIA haven't gone into policing unlapping is that they expect the leading drivers to have enough brain cells to realize what fights are theirs and which aren't. I fully agree with other posters who have mentioned the RB environment as a negative influence to Max, making him feel larger than life and only enforcing his bad attitude. I can see their benefit, but at least his dad should try to calm him down. My gut feeling tells me he's just doing the opposite. If it were a battle for position, 100% Max would've been penalized and I think the stewards were massively wrong to penalize Ocon for it.

Lewis is the driver that grew the most in my mind over the past few years. He moved from a hot-headed one-lap wonder to a fully polished and developed racing driver. You can see he has a great attitude, realizing he's a human being that's prone to mistakes, but takes every mistake, analyzes it, then tries to learn from it. Having met him personally (as a fan), along with other drivers, you can genuinely see that the image he portrays while speaking to the media is what he is. He's truly grateful for the position he's in and doesn't take things for granted.

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turbof1
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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GPR -A wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:22 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:12 pm
I think the second is a no-go. That would lead to a loss of the spectable as less cars will be in competition nearer the end of the race. No more blue flags could work, but I think it will be viewed as unfair/unnecessary hold up. I think the 3th is the best option.
Sorry no offence, but what is the spectacle they are adding to? The only excitement they provide is when they crash and bring Safety Car, which adds to a bit of drama. If that is the purpose they drive to serve, may be it isn't such a big deal to send to them to pits when they get blue flags.
There are midfield battles. Like in Singapore where Grosjean was battling sirotkin. I think if you are going to remove that you are damaging the show.
#AeroFrodo

TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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alexx_88 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:28 pm
If it were a battle for position, 100% Max would've been penalized and I think the stewards were massively wrong to penalize Ocon for it.
Except it wasn't.
alexx_88 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:28 pm
Lewis is the driver that grew the most in my mind over the past few years. He moved from a hot-headed one-lap wonder to a fully polished and developed racing driver.
Couldn't resist but he isn't there yet: He thanked his Brazilian supporters in Spanish today. =D>

marvin78
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Sometimes the midfield battels are the only ones in the race.