2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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DutchDopey
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Wynters wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:14 pm
DutchDopey wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:47 pm
Wynters wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:33 pm
What is undeniable is that, after he exited the pits, Ocon was a certain distance behind Verstappen. Once the team cleared him to close on Verstappen, that distance closed pretty easily (because Max was almost certainly driving to a delta).
This is just not true. He came in directly behind Max so got the DRS advantage immediately.
What was the gap to Max when he exited the pits (which was after the second DRS zone so Max had most of a lap to pull away at '2-3 seconds a lap')? It's difficult to tell using the video but I believe it was more than a second at the end of S2 of that first lap. However, it's probably irrelevant as...How much faster do you need to be to maintain position within a second despite the turbulent air? Does DRS make you a second faster a lap? The Red Bull was clearly faster than the Ferrari yet how long was Ricciardo unable to get alongside Raikkonen? Bear in mind that Ocon didn't start pushing until he'd radioed the pitlane and received clearance to unlap himself.

Lap pace relative to overall race pace is irrelevant. At the point he exited the pits Ocon was using fresh super softs (which I don't think he'd had access to before) and he was driving a car that was at it's lightest so far. After the crash his car was damaged. Of course, he was going faster in the two laps leading up to the incident.
Hamilton was 2 seconds behind Max. Ocon came in between them a little closer to Max than Ham, you do the math. So you are just making things up...

I don't want to believe in the conspiracy, but I just learned that Ocon's pitstop took just long enough (lot slower than normal) to come up exactly after Max :D

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TAG
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Interesting line by Ocon to summarize it in the post race interviews. "If you're leading the race, you have to control it."
माकडाच्या हाती कोलीत

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iotar__
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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TAG wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:57 pm
Interesting line by Ocon to summarize it in the post race interviews. "If you're leading the race, you have to control it."
- Verstappen doesn't understand basics of racing. Reaction to lenient off track vs Raikkonen penalty one of many examples
- Blame is also on RB and FIA for sheltering their marketing prodigy from unpleasent reality. Why learn anything? Who needs GP2?
- Silly move or not accident was fully avoidable on his part, once he saw Ocon braking in front of him on the right it was the time for the right decision. Instead it was racing vs ghost car :D reaction.

ispano6
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:08 am
ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:23 am

Might not be so absurd if you go back and fact check the number of races he's had an incident with another car? No doubt he's talented, but he's also made some bad decisions on several occasions. Ocon was no where near battling for points. That he didn't have the presence of mind to cede to a front running car speaks volumes. At least it does to this matured, level headed fan of three decades.
Ocon's intentions, skill level, attitude or whatever is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that Max did not need to race him and the mature, level headed thing to do was to let him go and get out of the way. Then Max wins and everyone falls at his feet in admiration. Now, instead, they're all falling on the floor laughing at his immature attitude and petulance.

Max's failure to win the race was his own fault, pure and simple. He was in a position to cruise to the victory. He chose instead to tangle with a back marker. Doesn't matter who the back marker is, or why they were doing what they were doing. He made his choice and it bit him in the arse.
Seriously, you can have your opinion and belittle Verstappen all you guys like. Fact of the matter is that Ocon got blamed for the RACING incident and was penalized, not Max. Pushing an unapologetic Ocon after the race is what I would have done after a weekend of hard work and driving your heart out with a broken car. I don't know what kind of a fan you are but I wasn't a real big fan of Verstappen until this race. Truth is Ocon could have avoided Max, but he didn't. Instead he intentionally impeded on Max. Simple evidence is the fact Ocons front left hitting the front of Verstappens rear right. Verstappen closed the corner but was on the correct line and Ocon brazenly committed himself knowing contact would happen, Ocon knows this.
Last edited by ispano6 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

marvin78
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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And you say that Verstappen could not have avoided Ocon (despite an opinion about Ocons right to do what he did) and easily win the race? You say everyone who has a problem with someone can punch around? Weird.

Wynters
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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DutchDopey wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:35 pm
Hamilton was 2 seconds behind Max. Ocon came in between them a little closer to Max than Ham, you do the math. So you are just making things up...
As I pointed out, I'm basing my comments on the video that was linked earlier in the thread so you can actually see where I'm taking my reference from.

I said...
Wynters wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:14 pm
What was the gap to Max when he exited the pits (which was after the second DRS zone so Max had most of a lap to pull away at '2-3 seconds a lap')? It's difficult to tell using the video but I believe it was more than a second at the end of S2 of that first lap. However, it's probably irrelevant...
What am I making up?

Could you please link the evidence that confirms what you are saying and that invalidates my supposition? It would be very useful as we could then use it as a basis to confirm your position that Verstappen was '2-3 seconds faster' on that lap. The gap to Hamilton from Verstappen was almost exactly 2 seconds at the start of lap 42 but can you show where Ocon slotted in between Max and Lewis? This is especially important because Ocon doesn't rejoin until almost the end of S1 and, whilst the gap fluctuates, Hamilton lost over half a second to Verstappen by the end of this lap. It's also worth bearing in mind that even if Ocon comes out within a second of Verstappen, he doesn't get DRS until into Sector 3 when he must still be within a second. There is no "DRS advantage" to gain "immediately".

Based on the FOM feed to Sky during the race:-
At the start of lap 42: Hamilton was +2.0 to Max and Ocon was only +19.5 behind tenth (when he exited the pits and was picked up by the timing screen).
At the start of lap 43: Hamilton was +2.5 to Max and Ocon was only +18.4 behind tenth.
At the start of lap 44: Hamilton was +2.8 to Max and Ocon was only +17.0 behind tenth.

Hamilton's time has no relevance by lap 44 but I've included it for completeness.

Diesel
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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WaikeCU wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:12 pm
Diesel wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:06 pm
Closing thoughts, this isn't the first time Max has threatened to get physical this year, he was talking about punching reportings earlier in the season and not a joking kind of way.

Adrian Sutil was the last driver I can remember to get involved in an altercation off the track, and it effectively ruined his career. It would be a shame if a similar thing happened to Max.
Won't happen because Max is a fan favourite on the grid, while Sutil wasn't.
The local police won't care who he is, if he breaks the law he'll be treated like anybody else.
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TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:34 pm
Seriously, you can have your opinion and belittle Verstappen all you guys like. Fact of the matter is that Ocon got blamed for the RACING incident and was penalized, not Max. Pushing an unapologetic Ocon after the race is what I would have done after a weekend of hard work and driving your heart out with a broken car. I don't know what kind of a fan you are but I wasn't a real big fan of Verstappen until this race. Truth is Ocon could have avoided Max, but he didn't. Instead he intentionally impeded on Max. Simple evidence is the fact Ocons front left hitting the front of Verstappens rear right. Verstappen closed the corner but was on the correct line and Ocon brazenly committed himself knowing contact would happen, Ocon knows this.
Most people in this thread are hellbent anti-Verstappen bordering obsession mainly because he skipped F2. He did quite well the last couple of races so I guess this is some cropped up outburst from this group. Then there are a couple of avid Max supporters throwing fuel to the fire, but don't worry there are some sensible people too. :D
Last edited by TwanV on Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dans79
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:34 pm
Seriously, you can have your opinion and belittle Verstappen all you guys like. Fact of the matter is that Ocon got blamed for the RACING incident and was penalized, not Max. Pushing an unapologetic Ocon after the race is what I would have done after a weekend of hard work and driving your heart out with a broken car. I don't know what kind of a fan you are but I wasn't a real big fan of Verstappen until this race. Truth is Ocon could have avoided Max, but he didn't.
Seriously, you mush not watch much racing huh? No way Ocon could avoid Max when he decided to aim for the apex with half of Ocon's car still along side. Even if Max was lapping Ocon for the first time, he doesn't have the right to drive him off the track when that much overlap exists.

I'd add most of us that know anything, don'y care what the stewards think 95% of the time because they are in large part a bunch a buffoons who spend more time pondering if a ruling will negatively effect the "spectacle" then they do actually trying to get it right!
158 95 90 6

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WaikeCU
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Maybe Hamilton should blame Kubica for almost losing his first Championship while we are at it.

The fact is Max defended when he shouldn't have. To me that's also risking your race by taking on the challenge.

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Big Tea
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I am not anti Max, but Hamiltons remark to him in the green room sums it up. You had a lot more to lose than him.
Its how you become a champion or lose out by a few points.

Irrespective of who had the right, Max could have avoided it.
If you are walking to a crossing and have right of way, but can see the car is not going to stop, you do not rush out infront to prove a point. Well, not often if you have sense.
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Wynters
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I wonder how Renault reacted to Sainz's little tap on Hulk? Not ideal for team mates. Also, what a shame for Ericsson :(

ispano6
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Pace has nothing to do with this. It's about sportsmanship. Ocon had no reason to clash with Max, other than the fact that Ocon mentioned himself that there IS a history of the two clashing.

Max pushing Ocon might be considered poor sportsmanship, but at least it was off the track out of the car. Ocon's deliberate poor sportsmanship cost a potential winner the race. I don't care who it was who would have won but I don't take it likely. Now the question is if it was Lewis or someone else would Ocon have ceded? Probably.

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RZS10
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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-new account created yesterday in order to argue about the Verstappen/Ocon incident
-already throwing around conspiracy theories

why y'all even engage?
Last edited by RZS10 on Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ispano6
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:56 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:34 pm
Seriously, you can have your opinion and belittle Verstappen all you guys like. Fact of the matter is that Ocon got blamed for the RACING incident and was penalized, not Max. Pushing an unapologetic Ocon after the race is what I would have done after a weekend of hard work and driving your heart out with a broken car. I don't know what kind of a fan you are but I wasn't a real big fan of Verstappen until this race. Truth is Ocon could have avoided Max, but he didn't.
Seriously, you mush not watch much racing huh? No way Ocon could avoid Max when he decided to aim for the apex with half of Ocon's car still along side. Even if Max was lapping Ocon for the first time, he doesn't have the right to drive him off the track when that much overlap exists.

I'd add most of us that know anything, don'y care what the stewards think 95% of the time because they are in large part a bunch a buffoons who spend more time pondering if a ruling will negatively effect the "spectacle" then they do actually trying to get it right!
Seriously, I watch a lot of racing, do a lot of simulator driving, etc. I've competed enough to know sportsmanship in racing. At the scale rc level too mind you. Seriously, you are calling stewards Buffoons? Lost all credibility there. That move Ocon did and the blame and penalty he received is consistent with the prior FIA rulings of similar incidents.
The stewards have ruled, as I had determined from all the footage of the race and onboard, that Max had the right of way exiting turn 2. If you can't see this, maybe you should get glasses, seriously. Now, should Max have given more room? In hindsight yes of course, but no one would have imagined Ocon, a non contender back marker even trying to race the frontrunner. As a driver who prides himself with racing etiquette, I find Ocon's actions distasteful.