jjn9128 wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:25 pm
Wynters wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:47 pm
jjn9128 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:07 pm
If Vettel has underperformed what has Raikkonen been doing?? Beaten, as he has been, by 181 points over 2 seasons.
Outperforming Seb for the last 2/3rds of this season despite suffering all the serious mechanical failures?
If you neutralise the races where Kimi was removed from the GP due to the actions (or inactions) of others, then I think he outscores Seb across the whole season. Now, to be clear, 'ifs' and 'buts' aren't facts, but don't be lulled into a false sense of performance by just looking at total points score.
That's utter hogwash. How do you explain 2015, 2016 and 2017 - all of which Vettel beat Raikkonen. Raikkonen had 4 DNF's this year, 2 were mechanical failures, 1 from the pit stop fiasco in Bahrain, and 1 from accident damage. In none of those was he ahead of Vettel. I can only think of 2 events where he significantly outperformed Vettel and that's USA and Brazil. There were many events where they were close, certainly in qualifying, mostly though Vettel was ahead.
There's a weird phenomenon where certain drivers have their performances selectively dissected and over-criticized for what appears, to me anyway, to be nationalistic sentiment from Brits against Germans - "2 world wars and 1 world cup" and other crud like that. Rosberg beat Hamilton fair and square in 2016 - not because Hamilton had more failures. Those people never go the other way and consider Rosberg's failures in 2015 as an explanation for Hamilton winning the title. Vettel seems to be the current whipping boy and I just can't think of a reason for it - other than a sort of 1970's British nationalism and because he is German.
The teams have the data on the drivers and for some reason Vettel is being retained while Raikkonen is being cut loose... makes so much sense if Raikkonen was the better performer.
Jjn, English is not my native language, so I may have misunderstood Wynter's post, but I got the impression that he meant that overall performances of Kimi and Seb have probably not been as straight forward as points difference would suggest, while underlining the speculative nature of his opinion which states that Raikkonen upped his game in a specific period of time.
How have You jumped from that to the conclusion that it's an obvious instance of a nationalistic based over-criticizm is beyond me. There has been no evidence of such bias in Wynter's post, I'd even say that he merely tried to give a different, perhaps wider, perspective to Your statement. Ironically, that would make Your post, in my view at least, THE selective, biased and nationalistic by imposing such things without any meaningful evidence whatsoever.
That being said, subjective opinions are what they are - biased by definition. It doesn't automatically imply nationalistic background, though some of it naturally may be a factor.
In here though, it's good to operate on facts, maybe challenge some statemetns with analisis and proposing different points of view. Such discussion may be worthwhile.
Tabloid and populistic type discussions on the other hand are widely available elsewhere, so let's keep such lower forms of hate entertainment far from here.