Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
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hollus
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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A row of posts about pace have been moved to the Mercedes team thread.
They contain so much Ferrari that they might feel a bit out of place even there? But not as much as here.
Thunder wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:55 pm
This is the Mercedes-AMG Petronas W10 offical car thread.

Please discuss ONLY technical items of this car, and refrain from speculation.

General discussion about the team, its drivers and performance can be posted in the team thread.

Livery Talk also belongs in the Team Thread. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27823
¡Puxa Esportin!

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Interesting article on the W10 by Racecar Engineering that is periodically updated over testing:

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... ng-update/

Excerpt:

"As ever with pre-season testing the question is how fast are all the teams? However, pre-season testing, particularly in a cold Barcelona is not going to give you the answer. Aside from the teams keeping their cards close to their chests, the track conditions are unrepresentative due to the cold temperatures, so the pace of these cars will be drastically different when we get to a race weekend. This is highlighted by the cold graining shown on the front left tyre of the Mercedes W10 on the second day of testing."

https://twitter.com/RacecarEngineer/sta ... 7960175619

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:05 am
Interesting article on the W10 by Racecar Engineering that is periodically updated over testing:

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... ng-update/

Excerpt:

"As ever with pre-season testing the question is how fast are all the teams? However, pre-season testing, particularly in a cold Barcelona is not going to give you the answer. Aside from the teams keeping their cards close to their chests, the track conditions are unrepresentative due to the cold temperatures, so the pace of these cars will be drastically different when we get to a race weekend. This is highlighted by the cold graining shown on the front left tyre of the Mercedes W10 on the second day of testing."

https://twitter.com/RacecarEngineer/sta ... 7960175619
Very interesting post there zibb, thanks!
Felipe Baby!

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Mercedes W10 rear wing airflow explained with flow-viz

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Mercedes W10 rear wing airflow explained with flow-viz

Testing usually sees teams apply flowviz paint on their cars to visualize airflow on certain car elements. They do so to verify the findings from the windtunnel and detect any unwanted effect that was not
simulated.

So did Mercedes, revealing airflow on the suction surface of the rear wing and its endplates (flows D and E).

It is clear in the image that airflow has drawn straight lines onto the suction surface of the main flap. This shows perfect laminar flow, as one would expect with this element.

Things get interesting when we look at flow behind the upper flap. As additional high speed flow is injected through the slot, the laminar flow is even more obviously 'painted' onto the wing (A).

However, it doesn't remain as such, as about halfway up the flap, flow separates from the wing (obvious by the unpainted section B). It later rejoins the wing in a turbulent fashion (C).

This is called a laminar separation bubble, an aerodynamic effect that can happen due to a strong adverse pressure gradient - and related velocity drop - along the surface, which makes the laminar boundary layer separate from the wing surface.

As the flow is separated, it transitions to a turbulent flow, increasing the momentum transfer into the boundary layer and leading to a reattachment.

Now, what does this mean for the Mercedes W10? The flow pattern that we see is perfectly acceptable. It shows that the wing is working airflow extremely hard. In fact, the separation bubble can under certain conditions increase downforce due to the increase in effective camber of the wing, but one thing it will do is add come drag.
Making the wing even more aggressive could mean the flow wouldn't rejoin the wing, resulting in a loss of downforce. There are of course solutions to this, such as turbulators, but no doubt, Mercedes's vast team or aerodynamicists have already considered this option as well.
Time will tell if the team opts to modify its rear wing design to alter flow characterics.

Image

Sevach
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Sevach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:12 pm
https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/21/mer ... ification/

Hmmmmm...
I think this year they are focusing mainly on the tires trying to make up for what was their biggest achilles heel at the beginning of last season.
160 96 91 6

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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Image

Image

Image
Via AMuS and @AlbertFabrega
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Sevach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:12 pm
https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/21/mer ... ification/

Hmmmmm...
Merc told AMuS yesterday that they’re bringing a substantial update next week for the second test.

Edit: Bottas confirmed this (i.e., that there is an update coming next week) in an interview today, as well.
Last edited by zibby43 on Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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SiLo wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:20 am
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:05 am
Interesting article on the W10 by Racecar Engineering that is periodically updated over testing:

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/art ... ng-update/

Excerpt:

"As ever with pre-season testing the question is how fast are all the teams? However, pre-season testing, particularly in a cold Barcelona is not going to give you the answer. Aside from the teams keeping their cards close to their chests, the track conditions are unrepresentative due to the cold temperatures, so the pace of these cars will be drastically different when we get to a race weekend. This is highlighted by the cold graining shown on the front left tyre of the Mercedes W10 on the second day of testing."

https://twitter.com/RacecarEngineer/sta ... 7960175619
Very interesting post there zibb, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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There is a guy called "What the Fat" A master data analyst. He know how to decipher the testing times using a model he continues to develop. It is eerily accurate. That's the only analysis I take seriously.

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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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OK I these new angles give me a new opinion on this thing.
It really looks to be a ball joint. Crazy I thought at first. But not really if we think about it.
Look at the line of action going through the push-rod. Look where it intersects at the hub. The other saving grace, is that the F1 car suspension travel is very small, so angular changes are minuscule compared to road cars.
NOW... What about the STEERING and bump steer and loading into control arms?!! I am hearing...

This is MY theory on how they get the bump steer right and the loading and the stability and all those kinematic issues sorted: Inside that Bulb, I feel there is a small linkage or cam mechanism that slides the base of the push-rod along an axis to keep the push-rod from getting jacked up or pulled down when the wheels are turned, and during braking events when you have a bit of a toe change. What do you guys think of this Idea?

mkay
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:52 pm
There is a guy called "What the Fat" A master data analyst. He know how to decipher the testing times using a model he continues to develop. It is eerily accurate. That's the only analysis I take seriously.
The same "model" who had Carlos Sainz as the best driver of 2017, and Nico Rosberg as the 7th best driver of all time (and that was before he won his WDC), ahead of Vettel, Hamilton, Lauda, Prost and Senna.

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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:59 pm
OK I these new angles give me a new opinion on this thing.
It really looks to be a ball joint. Crazy I thought at first. But not really if we think about it.
Look at the line of action going through the push-rod. Look where it intersects at the hub. The other saving grace, is that the F1 car suspension travel is very small, so angular changes are minuscule compared to road cars.
NOW... What about the STEERING and bump steer and loading into control arms?!! I am hearing...

This is MY theory on how they get the bump steer right and the loading and the stability and all those kinematic issues sorted: Inside that Bulb, I feel there is a small linkage or cam mechanism that slides the base of the push-rod along an axis to keep the push-rod from getting jacked up or pulled down when the wheels are turned, and during braking events when you have a bit of a toe change. What do you guys think of this Idea?
I think you're way out. This is nothing new, and it's not something that's seen just in F1, it's just with Mercs inboard upper pivot it's more in the limelight. Offset pushrods cause steering loads on bump, but they don't cause bump steer in and of themselves.
Even boring McPherson strut road cars have achieved similar effects to this with rotating arb mounts/tabs for decades.

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W10 rear wing airflow explained with flow-viz

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Were those 3 upwash strakes on the rear wing endplates a new addition introduced during the course of the testing?

In shots of the RW endplates with the Qualcomm wireless transmitters attached, the strakes aren't present.

tranquility2k4
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:38 pm
Sevach wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:12 pm
https://www.racefans.net/2019/02/21/mer ... ification/

Hmmmmm...
Merc told AMuS yesterday that they’re bringing a substantial update next week for the second test.

Edit: Bottas confirmed this (i.e., that there is an update coming next week) in an interview today, as well.
I think this article is confusing and ambiguous. Ultimately toto is saying they do not want to bring a big package to Melbourne having not tested it, but he doesn't rule out updates during the 2nd test just that they try and bring a decent baseline to the first test.