Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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godlameroso
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Testing is such an interesting phenomena. First week no doubt you bring out your test mule, you swap out parts, put more on the car, compare them back to back, correlate your findings. The drivers are told to do cheeky things, not stress the power units, get familiar with the behavior of the car. Just so many different things have to get crammed into 8 hours plus a lunch. Not to mention the mechanics earn their damn checks during testing, getting familiar with the engine installation, you'd be surprised how well mechanics input can be to chassis development, and overall integration of the power unit. The men and women who build these cars know every crack and seam.

Anyway, I imagine the test mule has a lot of adjustable bits that would be far more efficient if more "fixed", lower weight, better performance etc. I wonder how that combined with the engine let loose will look like. I will be pleasantly surprised if we see 16's.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

mantikos
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Re: Mercedes W10 rear wing airflow explained with flow-viz

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zibby43 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:39 pm
Were those 3 upwash strakes on the rear wing endplates a new addition introduced during the course of the testing?

In shots of the RW endplates with the Qualcomm wireless transmitters attached, the strakes aren't present.
Those are not transmitters, those are data loggers

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W10 rear wing airflow explained with flow-viz

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mantikos wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:22 am
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:39 pm
Were those 3 upwash strakes on the rear wing endplates a new addition introduced during the course of the testing?

In shots of the RW endplates with the Qualcomm wireless transmitters attached, the strakes aren't present.
Those are not transmitters, those are data loggers
jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:47 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:31 pm
What are those massive bulbs on the sides of the rear wing uprights?
Qualcomm wi-fi transmitters for all the extra data they're collecting.
I was going by this post. My fiancee's ***cousin*** is an engineer at Qualcomm.

What about the upwash strakes? In some of the earlier photos, they weren't present.

EDIT: Typo fixed. That one was . . . a doozy.
Last edited by zibby43 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mantikos
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Re: Mercedes W10 rear wing airflow explained with flow-viz

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zibby43 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:58 am
mantikos wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:22 am
zibby43 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:39 pm


Were those 3 upwash strakes on the rear wing endplates a new addition introduced during the course of the testing?

In shots of the RW endplates with the Qualcomm wireless transmitters attached, the strakes aren't present.
Those are not transmitters, those are data loggers
jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:47 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:31 pm
What are those massive bulbs on the sides of the rear wing uprights?
Qualcomm wi-fi transmitters for all the extra data they're collecting.
I was going by this post. My fiancee's husband is an engineer at Qualcomm.

What about the upwash strakes? In some of the earlier photos, they weren't present.
Here's why those are not wireless transmitters -

1. Mercedes drives with the Qualcomm transmitters in each race, it's built into the car and has permanent antennas to transmit data during pitstops there was a long article by them about that, find it, read it

2. A lot of other teams have similar data loggers when they install pilot tube arrays, I even remember seeing a McLaren with a snukar bump 5-6 years ago, they don't have Qualcomm tie ups

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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mkay wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:02 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:52 pm
There is a guy called "What the Fat" A master data analyst. He know how to decipher the testing times using a model he continues to develop. It is eerily accurate. That's the only analysis I take seriously.
The same "model" who had Carlos Sainz as the best driver of 2017, and Nico Rosberg as the 7th best driver of all time (and that was before he won his WDC), ahead of Vettel, Hamilton, Lauda, Prost and Senna.
If you understand the model that is easily explained. The more complete and mature the data the better the model gets. It is the best one out there at the moment. Drivers aside he correctly deciphered the car ranking before the first race. His car model is also the best I have seen.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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PhillipM wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:18 pm
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:59 pm
OK I these new angles give me a new opinion on this thing.
It really looks to be a ball joint. Crazy I thought at first. But not really if we think about it.
Look at the line of action going through the push-rod. Look where it intersects at the hub. The other saving grace, is that the F1 car suspension travel is very small, so angular changes are minuscule compared to road cars.
NOW... What about the STEERING and bump steer and loading into control arms?!! I am hearing...

This is MY theory on how they get the bump steer right and the loading and the stability and all those kinematic issues sorted: Inside that Bulb, I feel there is a small linkage or cam mechanism that slides the base of the push-rod along an axis to keep the push-rod from getting jacked up or pulled down when the wheels are turned, and during braking events when you have a bit of a toe change. What do you guys think of this Idea?
I think you're way out. This is nothing new, and it's not something that's seen just in F1, it's just with Mercs inboard upper pivot it's more in the limelight. Offset pushrods cause steering loads on bump, but they don't cause bump steer in and of themselves.
Even boring McPherson strut road cars have achieved similar effects to this with rotating arb mounts/tabs for decades.
You can't compare to McPherson strut of all things!
Never said push-rods is main cause bump steer, but any other "offset" linkage mounted to the wheel hub will influence the steering of it around its axis. It's just regular schmegular kinematics.
I implore you to look very carefully at Mercs's layout. I don't want to draw it in a cad program to see that they have to compensate for such a huge radius away from the king pin axis.

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Your pivot is still through the wishbone attachments, so no. Of course you can compare it to a Mac strut - the attachment is doing the exact same thing, changing spring/bar preloads with steering. No different at all.

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes W10 rear wing airflow explained with flow-viz

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mantikos wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:22 pm
zibby43 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:58 am
mantikos wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:22 am


Those are not transmitters, those are data loggers
jjn9128 wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:47 pm


Qualcomm wi-fi transmitters for all the extra data they're collecting.
I was going by this post.

What about the upwash strakes? In some of the earlier photos, they weren't present.
Here's why those are not wireless transmitters -

1. Mercedes drives with the Qualcomm transmitters in each race, it's built into the car and has permanent antennas to transmit data during pitstops there was a long article by them about that, find it, read it

2. A lot of other teams have similar data loggers when they install pilot tube arrays, I even remember seeing a McLaren with a snukar bump 5-6 years ago, they don't have Qualcomm tie ups
Thanks.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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PhillipM wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:48 pm
Your pivot is still through the wishbone attachments, so no. Of course you can compare it to a Mac strut - the attachment is doing the exact same thing, changing spring/bar preloads with steering. No different at all.
This is what I mentioned here! And i put it in Italics because it is important.
linkage mounted to the wheel hub will influence the steering of it around its axis.
We would have to confirm whether the mount is to the hub or to the wishbone. If it is the wishone... it doesn't matter you can have whatever shape or length of mount you want and the discussion is moot as it only affect the push-rod loading and no part of the steering kinematics.

So let me know if you have any information on if it is mounted to the hub or to the end of the lower control arm.

On an aside, I have to point out that there is a carbon fibre covering there.. we know the hub is metal. So it must be covering something.

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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It's mounted to the hub, but it still doesn't change your steering geometery, only your loadings, it would have to snap your tie-rod to alter your steering geo, the rules don't allow for multi-link type setups #-o

I don't get why this is such a big deal, pushrods have been mounted off-centre on hubs for decades on all sorts of different race and road cars, it's hardly revolutionary.
The interesting bit is why Merc have suddenly decided to push it as far as they can in the regs when they didn't use it that extreme previously.

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Here, a tech article from 2 years ago talking about how most teams were using it already and the FIA decided to clamp down and limit it:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12830 ... -for-teams

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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And an article with a clear drawing from on of the old Red Bulls showing the exact same thing:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fia- ... 1/1384526/

Mclaren had to alter the suspension on the MCL32 or 33 I think because the FIA brought the limits down and their setup was originally even more extreme.

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Morteza
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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Image
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tpe
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:28 pm
If you understand the model that is easily explained. The more complete and mature the data the better the model gets. It is the best one out there at the moment. Drivers aside he correctly deciphered the car ranking before the first race. His car model is also the best I have seen.
Do you have any link plz?

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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tpe wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:12 am
PlatinumZealot wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:28 pm
If you understand the model that is easily explained. The more complete and mature the data the better the model gets. It is the best one out there at the moment. Drivers aside he correctly deciphered the car ranking before the first race. His car model is also the best I have seen.
Do you have any link plz?
https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/