Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by subcritical71 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:33 am

Polite wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:50 am
Juzh wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:35 am
Mr. Fahrenheit wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:53 am


to address this translation a little more precisely:

The data comes from the F1 app (access supplied by a kind Englishman). The telemetry was compared between a lap performed with a fully operational PU (43) and a lap when the PU was showing problems (51).

Haven't had direct experience with the latest F1 app, but I'd imagine the data - if accessible - would be valid. Does anyone know if it provides that kind of data?
this is the kind of data it provides:
https://streamable.com/k1g6i
https://streamable.com/88ne1
https://streamable.com/zv4z0

On some cars which have displayed speedometer (renault is one of those) on their steering wheels you can see the data from the car itself and the f1 app is almost 100% accurate, thus any kind of analysis done using the f1 app telemetries is to be trusted without second thought.
claimed as f1app.. we dont even know if it is provided for sure from f1 app. Thats my point. Also is not journalism, no ethics, in writing a news yelling "someone say something or gives us something".
Sure it is claimed. Have you looked at the data and found inconsistencies? If so, where?

Polite
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:28 pm

subcritical71 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:33 am
Polite wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:50 am
Juzh wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:35 am

this is the kind of data it provides:
https://streamable.com/k1g6i
https://streamable.com/88ne1
https://streamable.com/zv4z0

On some cars which have displayed speedometer (renault is one of those) on their steering wheels you can see the data from the car itself and the f1 app is almost 100% accurate, thus any kind of analysis done using the f1 app telemetries is to be trusted without second thought.
claimed as f1app.. we dont even know if it is provided for sure from f1 app. Thats my point. Also is not journalism, no ethics, in writing a news yelling "someone say something or gives us something".
Sure it is claimed. Have you looked at the data and found inconsistencies? If so, where?
Dont have the knowledge for that m8. But i have f1 app and there is always a logo (tm.) on their pages ;) I think those are right data from f1 app but rewritten on another software (Excel like..).

My point is wait & see, if Ferrari will change spare of the Pu, we will know where the issue was ;)

subcritical71
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by subcritical71 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:28 pm

Polite wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:28 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:33 am
Polite wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:50 am


claimed as f1app.. we dont even know if it is provided for sure from f1 app. Thats my point. Also is not journalism, no ethics, in writing a news yelling "someone say something or gives us something".
Sure it is claimed. Have you looked at the data and found inconsistencies? If so, where?
Dont have the knowledge for that m8. But i have f1 app and there is always a logo (tm.) on their pages ;) I think those are right data from f1 app but rewritten on another software (Excel like..).

My point is wait & see, if Ferrari will change spare of the Pu, we will know where the issue was ;)
Well, next time it would help your case if you don't say things like "the source of the telemetry is not reliable. just clickbait" and then have no proof yourself of your own statements. Then complain that you are downvoted. Its almost like you are just yelling "someone say something or gives us something" yourself.

I don't want to further pollute this thread as its supposed to be focused on a technical discussion of the Ferrari PU. If you want, please take this to PM or another thread.

Polite
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Polite » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:45 pm

subcritical71 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:28 pm
Polite wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:28 pm
subcritical71 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:33 am


Sure it is claimed. Have you looked at the data and found inconsistencies? If so, where?
Dont have the knowledge for that m8. But i have f1 app and there is always a logo (tm.) on their pages ;) I think those are right data from f1 app but rewritten on another software (Excel like..).

My point is wait & see, if Ferrari will change spare of the Pu, we will know where the issue was ;)
Well, next time it would help your case if you don't say things like "the source of the telemetry is not reliable. just clickbait" and then have no proof yourself of your own statements. Then complain that you are downvoted. Its almost like you are just yelling "someone say something or gives us something" yourself.

I don't want to further pollute this thread as its supposed to be focused on a technical discussion of the Ferrari PU. If you want, please take this to PM or another thread.
U are right m8, im not that trained in english these days so maybe im not in topic or not polite. Just let me train more my tecnical speaking and we will be fine :)

Lets restart on the analisys of those datas: in my opinion, if i can try to read that telemetry, i would say:
1) mgu k was not an issue, cause out of the corner (when k deploys from the battery) the Pu looks fine, till around 200km/h.
2) the issue is in the recovery from H (cause there is no deploy of energy from 200km/h till the end of the straits.. when is opened the route from H to K)

but.. 2) doesnt mean there was an issue on the H hardware:
- first of all because the engine finished the race (while other times we saw an Tc/H issue often the car has to stop to prevent more damages to other parts of the pu) (i can remember only Riccio no dnf in montecarlo18 for an hardware issue on the H)
- second, because an issue in the recovery from H can be caused by an Ice issue not providing enough pressure to the turbo.

Am i right?
Last edited by Polite on Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aral
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by aral » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:22 pm

Just a reminder that this is a Ferrari PU thread and as such, discussions of RBR and Honda are not appropriate. So they have been removed.

MtthsMlw
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by MtthsMlw » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:40 pm

Charles Leclerc will use the same power unit in China that he used for the Bahrain Grand Prix. The unit will be duly fitted on the number 16 car, in which the Monegasque driver had to settle for third place having led the race in style until a few laps from the flag.

Anomaly. Following the race, the Scuderia Ferrari Mission Winnow technicians and engineers traced the fault on the car to a short circuit within an injection system control unit. This type of problem had never been seen before on the component in question.
https://formula1.ferrari.com/en/2019-ba ... t-circuit/

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:21 pm

aral wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:22 pm
Just a reminder that this is a Ferrari PU thread and as such, discussions of RBR and Honda are not appropriate. So they have been removed.
aral moderating. I rest my case re my answering blocked/held-up posts.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:29 pm

"Leclerc will use the same power unit in China" That latest news was given on here more than 6-hours ago. and I was back than wondering what is going to be done by some on here with their "super fast super conjecture/s".

belldanndy
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by belldanndy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:35 pm

Did the injection system control unit provided by Magneti Marelli? So what was causing the short circuit? Heat?! Or just a defect unit?

Mr.G
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by Mr.G » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:55 pm

henry wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:16 am
Mr.G wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:30 pm
Watching the LEC onboard from redit with on lap adjustments and battery telemetry I've tried to calculate the MGU-K deploement time. And if I'm right it only takes 16,6 sec to fully discharge the ES resp. reach the 4MJ per limit from ES to MGU-K
I think you’ll find 16.6 seconds at 120kW is 2MJ, which would match the maximum available per lap energy if MGU-K to ES were the only charge route available.
Yes, you right, I calculated it before and post later from "memory" :)... so it can be about 32s+ in one lap... 2MJ direcly and the rest through the ES>H>K route + some recharges during some corners...
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

NL_Fer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by NL_Fer » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:22 pm

I have looked some onboard video with telemetry, not very precise, but is am sure full throttle is not applied at 150kph, is it more around 170kph. Also think about the MGU-K. It only deploys at full throttle, not earlier.

So when Leclerc hits full throttle at 170kph, he also gets MGU-K deployment and powers combined the PU has a steep increase in power delivery. This increase of power could declare, why we see a reduced acceleration starting from 200kph.

And as i said before, an ICE on 5 cilinders in safe mode, will have less power to recover by MGU-H.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:05 am

An ICE on five cylinders out of six will have seventeen percent less power.

NL_Fer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by NL_Fer » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:57 am

saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:05 am
An ICE on five cylinders out of six will have seventeen percent less power.
If the MGU-K 120kw is include, the drawback is less than 14%.

richardn
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by richardn » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:24 am

NL_Fer wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:57 am
saviour stivala wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 3:05 am
An ICE on five cylinders out of six will have seventeen percent less power.
If the MGU-K 120kw is include, the drawback is less than 14%.
Yes but everything in the K originally comes from the ICE, so over the lap, 5/6 will hold true.

Is the cars friction resistance roughly proportional to velocity? I had a quick google and for laminar flows it appears to be, but proportional to v squared for turbulent flows. Could this be used to determine if LEC was going faster than 5 cylinders would allow?

I'm guessing that it is possible to increase the fuel flow to the remaining cylinders to compensate a bit for the missing cylinder. LEC was being asked to lift and coast so we have to assume that if Ferrari's explanation is correct a lot more fuel per cylinder was being used. How much above 5/6 power would this allow Ferrari to go?

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

Post by saviour stivala » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:59 am

After all have been said, what actually counts at this point in time is. FERRARI number 16 car will use the same power unit in China, that is as per FERRARI ‘the team’, that after all is the only entity that have all the information and facts. One thing should be remembered is, after the flag had hardly signaled the end of race, the FERRARI man that counts said “miscombustion in one cylinder” but “the engine was still running at end of race, so it can still run” and that position has not changed.