2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

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NathanOlder
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by NathanOlder » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:39 pm

Restomaniac wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:47 pm

Yep, it’s like they have made their car as fast as posssible in a straight line and just totally misjudged what they need to actually turn corners.
To be fair to Ferrari, they are clearly best of the rest and only losing to probably the best team ever in F1 8)
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Vasconia
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Vasconia » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:42 pm

GPR -A wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:17 pm
f1jcw wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:05 pm
I pasted this in the Ferrari thread, not sure if it is relevant here, as it deals with the track performance.
Apologies if wrong.



Interesting from Rosberg:

"I talked to the Ferrari guys and they said to me that they have positioned the car wrong regarding the aerodynamics. They are driving with less aero and they don't have an adequate package to put on the car to have more downforce."

Rosberg: "They are working on that. Ferrari will bring a new rear wing soon. But the problem is that the whole car is positioned in that area so it's not easy. Just changing the rear wing might make the car completely inefficient."

https://mobile.twitter.com/Vetteleclerc ... 6446476288
If that is indeed true AND if they don't fix it for Spain, they would be butchered in Barcelona.
Has the Ferrari become the 2014 Williams? good straightline speed but terrible with slow corners? if this is true then say bye to the 2019 championship. I can´t believe that they have ruined which was a good 2018 aero philosopy. #-o

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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Vasconia » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:46 pm

Restomaniac wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:35 pm
dfegan358 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:50 pm
Vettel team radio after qualifying “ we had it , we had it. “ then “we know why though”

Any ideas to what he is getting at? Seen somewhere else referring to poor outlap management by the pit wall.

I’m not convinced. Something could going we don’t know about it. Obviously a problem with the CE as Giovinazzi needed his replaced.

Would an older spec CE, like vettel and Leclerc had today affect PU performance?
Bit of a strange comment from Vettel that. If the Mercedes had managed to squeeze everything out with perfect laps then fair enough but it’s clear neither did. He also may have got lucky with Verstappen not getting a second run.
Perhaps due to the low speed in the in-lap Ferrari had problems to get the correct temperature, is the only explanation I can reach though I am not convinced at all.

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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Vasconia » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:48 pm

marvin78 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:41 pm
I must say: Kudos to Mercedes. They seem to have a hell of a car again. I am really surprised that they can hold this level of developement over so many years. It's a really big thing that is going on therre. It's a pitty that they always talk themelves down. They are by far the best at the whole package and everyone should know that by know. Absolutely impressive. Dominating such a long aera is new. And there seems to be no end for that.
Everytime there is a test or they have a not so good weekend they manage to bring chances which make the car superb again, I don´t understand how they do it. :wtf:

Carl Mccoy
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Carl Mccoy » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:49 pm

Ferrari is lost. They lost 0.3s and any chance for the championship :-)

djones
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by djones » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:51 pm

I did not see qual. Did Hamilton make some mistakes, or was he just slower than Bottas?

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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by ME4ME » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:00 pm

Hamilton made the best of a day were Bottas was faster. Still all to play for tomorrow. A good start will go a long way towards victory for him.

f1jcw
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by f1jcw » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:08 pm

iotar__ wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:15 pm
Restomaniac wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:14 pm
Ringleheim wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:08 pm
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but all during winter testing the word was that Ferrari was gaining time in the medium and fast corners in Barcelona. Word was their car was very aerodynamically efficient and producing good downforce.

In contrast, the Mercedes was seen to have a high speed corner understeer problem and so tracks with proper corners were going to be an advantage for Ferrari.

FF to China and the SKY Sports guys are going on about how Ferrari has clearly gone with a "low downforce" concept for their car, whereas Mercedes is the opposite...and so Ferrari is fast on the straights but the Mercedes is "Bloody quick" (to quote Vettel) in the corners.

What the hell is going on?
The cold winter testing.

Ferrari were actually in their tyre window there. Mercedes were actually having trouble getting heat into theirs so much that they were making a mess of them due to cold graining.

They go to a track with more traditional temps and suddenly the truth surfaces.
Was Bahrain cold like Barcelona, China warmer? Operating window is too vague of an excuse and should apply less to the best overall car (let's say). No one builds the car to work only in cold winter testing :wink: .

I'm with OP on this one, there's no logic to it, first it was a track (Aus vs Barcelona), then engine, packaging and cooling (apparently it was too cold :wtf: ), now some DF/straight line speed set up and tyre pressure magic.


Track temps by the end of Q3

Melbourne: 34 (air: 23)
Bahrain: 28 (air: 25)
Shanghai: 32 (air: 21)

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Zynerji » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:10 pm

I think the Ferrari straight line speed and their exceptional starts (compared to Mercedes) will put Seb into the lead at the start. It really comes down to the delta through turn 1/2 as the Mercedes will have almost zero chance to pass Ferrari on the DRS straights.

I expect an undercut by Merc, and it will be down to the speed delta of the soft/ mediums that will determine the race.

Looking forward to a nail biter tomorrow!

Phil
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Phil » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:17 pm

Schuttelberg wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:11 am
LM10 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:05 am
Mercedes got pole in the slower car!
Not just pole. 1-2. Apparently, Toto is a GOD. He magically sends speed.
It’s weird. IMO it’s not that Mercedes was fast, it was Ferrari that was slow. In my opinion, they are dialing down things perhaps due to reliability concerns? I dont think Mercedes/Toto is faking their performance or expectations.
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Jordan44
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Jordan44 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:21 pm

Phil wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:17 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:11 am
LM10 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:05 am
Mercedes got pole in the slower car!
Not just pole. 1-2. Apparently, Toto is a GOD. He magically sends speed.
It’s weird. IMO it’s not that Mercedes was fast, it was Ferrari that was slow. In my opinion, they are dialing down things perhaps due to reliability concerns? I dont think Mercedes/Toto is faking their performance or expectations.
According to Rosberg, speaking with RTL, the Ferrari chassis has a major imbalance. They are lacking downforce compared to Mercedes

Juzh
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Juzh » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:23 pm

Vettel vs Bottas



As is quite obvious by now, ferrari is total trash in pretty much any corner type that's below 200 kmh. They're making a lot of time on the straights, but obviously not enough. Vettel is ahead up until braking for for the back straight, then loses massive amounts of time in that single corner complex, only for him to reel it almost all back on the straight, then lose it again in the final hairpin and final turn.

Also, remember to check out google drive folder in my singature, quali laps have been uploaded.

Wouter
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by Wouter » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:29 pm

Jordan44 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:21 pm
Phil wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:17 pm
Schuttelberg wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:11 am


Not just pole. 1-2. Apparently, Toto is a GOD. He magically sends speed.
It’s weird. IMO it’s not that Mercedes was fast, it was Ferrari that was slow. In my opinion, they are dialing down things perhaps due to reliability concerns? I dont think Mercedes/Toto is faking their performance or expectations.
.
According to Rosberg, speaking with RTL, the Ferrari chassis has a major imbalance. They are lacking downforce compared to Mercedes
Rosberg about qualifying and the Ferrari chassis (around 1 minute).


ferkan
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by ferkan » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:37 pm

Juzh wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:23 pm
Vettel vs Bottas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzD-ou_Iu_M

As is quite obvious by now, ferrari is total trash in pretty much any corner type that's below 200 kmh. They're making a lot of time on the straights, but obviously not enough. Vettel is ahead up until braking for for the back straight, then loses massive amounts of time in that single corner complex, only for him to reel it almost all back on the straight, then lose it again in the final hairpin and final turn.

Also, remember to check out google drive folder in my singature, quali laps have been uploaded.
I went through every corner here and, while in corners below 150kph Ferrari is down ~10kph I wouldnt say its trash in comparison.

Seems Vettel lost most of time in corner before back straight, not in others.

Good thing is they look reall good in high speed corners, every bit as fast actually.

f1jcw
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Re: 2019 Chinese Grand Prix - Shanghai, April 12-14

Post by f1jcw » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:52 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:10 pm
I think the Ferrari straight line speed and their exceptional starts (compared to Mercedes) will put Seb into the lead at the start. It really comes down to the delta through turn 1/2 as the Mercedes will have almost zero chance to pass Ferrari on the DRS straights.

I expect an undercut by Merc, and it will be down to the speed delta of the soft/ mediums that will determine the race.

Looking forward to a nail biter tomorrow!
Sounds good, but not sure it has much basis in fact, it didn’t work out that way in Bahrain