Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

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mantikos
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by mantikos » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:37 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:00 pm
ringo wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:48 pm
Sevach wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:53 pm
Just a little kink to the endplate to comply with the rules, very clever.
For aero purposes it's still exposed and pushes the air out.

I'm thinking Mercedes already saw that ruling coming.
I mean even Red Bull with time to think about it decided to close everything, they can't have come out with that on friday, right?
It's not really a kink. That little piece that was added on is supposed to be a part of the end plate now. So in effect the wing flap would fall behind it when viewed from the side. So it is practically the smallest possible extension of the end flap to appease the rules.
A kink would in the wing element itself would have been illegal infact.

The extension to the endplate has to be part of the original VES itself, and adhire to the minimum/maximum (10mm minimum, 12mm maximum) thickness and edge radii (5mm radius). It looks like it does so.

This is a good example of how to explain the regulations, so I will remember this one (and I might even do an article on it). I do wonder if they can push it more to the edge. Since the solution got outlawed on safety issues, I wonder if they can get the wing element exposed without sharp edges.

I think that's the direction they're going to go to, either move the sharp point inwards and further away from the end plate and end with a rounded section (if they need a vortex there to increase the outwash effect as Scarbs keeps implying), or just end with a rounded section since the only thing that was outlawed was the sharp point end, that's an easy fix. Looking forward to the article.

dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by dans79 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:47 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:00 pm
I wonder if they can get the wing element exposed without sharp edges.
They probably can, all they really need to know is what the minimum radius is to be considered safe.

turbof1
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by turbof1 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:17 pm

dans79 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:47 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:00 pm
I wonder if they can get the wing element exposed without sharp edges.
They probably can, all they really need to know is what the minimum radius is to be considered safe.
3.3.6 a) iii) might not allow it. Unless they can dig up a rule that can act as an exception. At the end of 3.3.6. a) the rules allow a 10mm taper radius where the endplate (endplate, not VES!) meets the wing element. If they somehow succeed to get an acceptable intepretation of that to use the taper radius to make the wing element edges safe, it is possible.
#AeroFrodo

dans79
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by dans79 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:50 pm

turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:17 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:47 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:00 pm
I wonder if they can get the wing element exposed without sharp edges.
They probably can, all they really need to know is what the minimum radius is to be considered safe.
3.3.6 a) iii) might not allow it. Unless they can dig up a rule that can act as an exception. At the end of 3.3.6. a) the rules allow a 10mm taper radius where the endplate (endplate, not VES!) meets the wing element. If they somehow succeed to get an acceptable intepretation of that to use the taper radius to make the wing element edges safe, it is possible.
what copy of the rules are you looking at? I don't see that in the latest revision published 12.03.19

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

turbof1
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by turbof1 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:06 pm

dans79 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:50 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:17 pm
dans79 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:47 pm


They probably can, all they really need to know is what the minimum radius is to be considered safe.
3.3.6 a) iii) might not allow it. Unless they can dig up a rule that can act as an exception. At the end of 3.3.6. a) the rules allow a 10mm taper radius where the endplate (endplate, not VES!) meets the wing element. If they somehow succeed to get an acceptable intepretation of that to use the taper radius to make the wing element edges safe, it is possible.
what copy of the rules are you looking at? I don't see that in the latest revision published 12.03.19

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110
Yeah that's my bad. I was trying to cite the articles from memory, but got the order nummers wrong. It's 3.3.6 b) iii) (page 14) and the part about the 10mm taper radius is at the end of 3.3.6 (page 15).
#AeroFrodo

atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by atanatizante » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:09 pm

Image

They added some little rake ...
And this is the first time this year when they used again the new rear wheel rims?
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Jozsusz
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by Jozsusz » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:48 pm

atanatizante wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:09 pm
http://postimg.cc/kB31LgVQ

They added some little rake ...
And this is the first time this year when they used again the new rear wheel rims?
Every car has a rake. But this one is still way below the Renault and RB.

mantikos
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by mantikos » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:09 pm

atanatizante wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:09 pm
http://postimg.cc/kB31LgVQ

They added some little rake ...
And this is the first time this year when they used again the new rear wheel rims?
It looks no different than the previous race, or the first race to be honest.

GrandAxe
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by GrandAxe » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm

atanatizante wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:09 pm
http://postimg.cc/kB31LgVQ

They added some little rake ...
And this is the first time this year when they used again the new rear wheel rims?
Good catch.

Notably, Lewis had just swerved when that pic was taken.
The rake seems to vary depending on the area of the track - similar to Ferrari diving in corners and squatting on straights during the Barcelona tests. Tellingly, Merc experimented with different wing heights in the first week of that test.

Here is an image from the Chinese gp showing pronounced rake and low front wing from both Mercs while cornering (one braking, the other accelerating):

Image
Credit - AP news.

Here's another showing higher front wings:

Image
Credit Formula1.com

Last one from China, on a straight, showing "normal" Merc rake:

Image

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by zibby43 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:30 pm

atanatizante wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:09 pm
http://postimg.cc/kB31LgVQ

They added some little rake ...
And this is the first time this year when they used again the new rear wheel rims?
Just curious, why do you say this was the first time they used the "new" wheels? To my eyes, it looks like they used the same wheels they've used since the beginning of the season.

M840TR
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by M840TR » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:30 pm

Image

via Albert Fabrega

GrizzleBoy
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by GrizzleBoy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:03 pm

Front wing y250 generators more like williams' "blunt" style vs the more common bird beak shape.

Edit: wait, isn't it just the angle?

zibby43
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by zibby43 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:49 pm

GrizzleBoy wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:03 pm
Front wing y250 generators more like williams' "blunt" style vs the more common bird beak shape.

Edit: wait, isn't it just the angle?
According to Albert Fabrega, this spec does indeed have the Y250 section of the flaps trimmed down.

It's easier to spot when you focus on the uppermost flaps (the top 2, in particular).

The image quality containing the Baku spec isn't great.

JasonF1
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by JasonF1 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:55 am

It does look to be a low downforce wing as well.

M840TR
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Re: Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

Post by M840TR » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:05 am

JasonF1 wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:55 am
It does look to be a low downforce wing as well.
I can't notice anything in the image that suggests low downforce; the flap arrangement is pretty much the same.