2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

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dans79
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by dans79 » Mon May 13, 2019 4:10 pm

LM10 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 2:21 pm
I don’t care about Toto’s words. Just don’t tell me his behavior is professional when he tells they’re underdogs for the 1 thousandth time.
That's how the game is played. One of the best ways to beat an opponent is to get into their head. In the case of F1, you getting into the heads of the opposing teams fans, and the media. The media needs clicks and views, so they hype and over dramatize every little minutiae. Fans have a short attention span, and are so addicted to instant gratification they can't handle it when their chosen team or driver doesn't live up to their expectations. It wears on drivers and other high ranking team members (constant questions from the media), and eventually if will start effecting the unseen members of the team as well.

zac510
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by zac510 » Mon May 13, 2019 4:17 pm

Fortunately from rock bottom the only way is up!

We've been a bit unlucky not to have good races for 3rd place.

The VET/LEC skirmish is fun to watch, though, even if it means they're not winning.

TAG
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by TAG » Mon May 13, 2019 4:21 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:02 pm
Its getting to the point that I'm not even watching live anymore... I start the replay, watch the first couple corners, then fast forward to watch the last 5 laps.

Sad, but this has been sad for a loooooong time.
Look at the bright side, you get to spend a lot of time telling all of us about your sorrows. Priorities.
Countdown to 91: 9 more victories ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Zynerji » Mon May 13, 2019 4:26 pm

TAG wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:21 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 4:02 pm
Its getting to the point that I'm not even watching live anymore... I start the replay, watch the first couple corners, then fast forward to watch the last 5 laps.

Sad, but this has been sad for a loooooong time.
Look at the bright side, you get to spend a lot of time telling all of us about your sorrows. Priorities.
:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :roll:

It's good that we get to know each other's differences. If we all agreed on everything, only one of us would be necessary, and bigoted.

Mattchu
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Mattchu » Mon May 13, 2019 6:12 pm

MissionWin[ge]now...seems to be a lot going on in this thread!

Mercedes have done a fantastic job and it`s up to the others to catch up. I personally don`t think they themselves thought they`d be this good, it seems that their car really likes these tyres.

dtro
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by dtro » Mon May 13, 2019 6:24 pm

Mattchu wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 6:12 pm
MissionWin[ge]now...seems to be a lot going on in this thread!

Mercedes have done a fantastic job and it`s up to the others to catch up. I personally don`t think they themselves thought they`d be this good, it seems that their car really likes these tyres.
I don't disagree that it's up to the others to catch up, but I do think Mercedes had to have some idea of how good they would be. If you take away Toto's statements, the team just gives out an air of "leave us alone, we know what we're doing." Show up to testing with a car, week later what is perceived as a b-spec meant for Australia is fast-tracked to the second week of pre-season testing. Based on prior winter testing Mercedes would kind of look like a second fiddle player until racing actually started and they go full Devil Went Down to Georgia fiddle solo making everyone else look like they literally just started playing.

drunkf1fan
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by drunkf1fan » Mon May 13, 2019 6:32 pm

Carl Mccoy wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 3:55 pm
The advantage of Mercedes is difficult to explain after the last two seasons. Ferrari could have been wrong at this year's car, but why Red Bull is so far away.
Is it hard to explain though? Ferrari didn't have great aero concepts from 2014-2016. In 2015 Haas start their prep for 2016 entry, they had a close partnership with Ferrari and unlimited testing. THe die cast 100% certain rules for 2017 weren't set till late, but simplified front wings, wider front wings and lower rear wing was known within reason.

Ferrari were by multiple rumours to be running lots of extra aero testing in 2015. By statements like Toto saying well it was in the rules and Ferrari were smart to do it, the FIA put a new rule in to prevent it... they were basically confirmed in many ways to have been running unlimited aero testing in 2015. I said during 2015, I said when it was brought up in 2016, do you waste unlimited testing for the last season aero for the current regulations or to hit the new aero regulation period with a headstart?

Ferrari took a giant leap forward and were at least on par, if not maybe the faster car in both 2017 and 18, their engine took a step but their aero took a huge step forward. For me one of the primary reasons Ferrari were good in 17/18 was 2015 Haas/unlimited aero testing gave them a huge leg up on the 2017 regulation period. With the regulation changes for 2019 and no similar massive testing advantage, also with being actually competitive in 2018 they weren't able to plan/test and divert resources to a 2019 car like they were for the 2017 car. As such to me it's entirely no surprise Ferrari haven't hit the new regulation period brilliant, having also lost Allison in between these regulation changes.


As for Red Bull, Red Bull outside of what was it, 2011, are always a second half of the season team. Newey doesn't seem to be able to test a car brilliantly preseason and needs in season correlation/testing to tweak his cars then in the second half of the season and particularly the final third it's like a different competition.

Last year, the year before, RBR up to around Spa are decent but not really fighting anywhere near the mercs, mostly fighting for a 3rd spot if lucky, then post Monza they are going for wins in Singapore, Japan, USA, Mexico, Brazil.

Do Red Bull have a problem with wind tunnel, do they develop too much in season and simply start their cars aero much later than other teams or does Newey just make such complex cars they take too much tweaking to get to work perfectly while Merc get theirs working pretty optimally pretty damn quickly.

erudite450
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by erudite450 » Mon May 13, 2019 7:30 pm

simieski wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:02 pm
Just a thought...
I think Hamilton would have won this race irrespective of who was in the lead at T1. Assuming Hamilton would have stayed with Bottas like he did in Baku, they would have pitted Bottas first and Hamilton would have got the advantage of pitting under the safety car, coming out ahead of Bottas.
I couldn't agree more! Another way of looking at it, if Bottas was able to match Hamilton's pace - as he suggested he could have - they would have brought Hamilton in first and he (Bottas) would have jumped him (Hamilton) during the SC period.

iotar__
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by iotar__ » Mon May 13, 2019 8:17 pm

erudite450 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:30 pm
simieski wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:02 pm
Just a thought...
I think Hamilton would have won this race irrespective of who was in the lead at T1. Assuming Hamilton would have stayed with Bottas like he did in Baku, they would have pitted Bottas first and Hamilton would have got the advantage of pitting under the safety car, coming out ahead of Bottas.

I couldn't agree more!
Another way of looking at it, if Bottas was able to match Hamilton's pace - as he suggested he could have - they would have brought Hamilton in first and he (Bottas) would have jumped him (Hamilton) during the SC period.
Here we go again #-o .

foxmulder_ms
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by foxmulder_ms » Mon May 13, 2019 8:25 pm

Santozini wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:38 pm
Chuckjr wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 12:22 pm
F1 has become a joke. These are not championships, they are coronations.

F1 may never recover with Mercedes in the game. Whatever changes they make, Merc will dominate with nearly unlimited resources. Ok great for them, but its death for the sport. I'm genuinely losing interest after 3 decades of dedicated watching. And Todo is a lie machine. I feel insulted as a fan by his constant open liying about being slower. Id have more respect for him and his accomplishments if he didn't attempt to insult fans with his nonsense about feeling under pressure or slower. smh.
Surely something needs to happen to shake things up...this is the 6th year of Merc domination and the sport is loosing interest. This year it has been ever worst, with 5 1/2's in a row :shock: :shock:

I understand Merc has been doing a great job and deserve to win but we have seen in the past the FIA ending dominance eras in a dramatic way...Ferrari in the 2000's and Redbull in 2010/2013.

What's on the FIA's mind at the moment? Are they really waiting for 2021 and hopping some team manages to finally beat Mercedes? Could we be in for a 8 year Merc dominance? :( :(

There is no precedence of such dominance so we really don't know how much this could harm the sport but it isn't looking good...
I strongly suggest *not* to change regulations, every time there is a change Merc aces it, lol.

Merc is just great at what they are doing. Merc could be beaten by other large comparable auto makers such as Honda who are willing to invest. Not only money but brain power I think Ferrari/Fiat is just not a match. Toyota/Ford/BMW/Audi/Tesla(-battery tech??) at all should be in the future of the sport. Not mom&pop teams, they should be gone. If I were F1 leaders I would try to do everything to attract big guys. I prefer a very high-tech and somehow road relevant sport.

Another note.... I think Ferrari still has a chance. One engine blow and you are almost equal points, again. It can happen. However they broke Leclerc for the time being. I am sad for him. I bet he feels like he cannot win even if he is faster than Vettel which may make him lose motivation. :|

Restomaniac
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Restomaniac » Mon May 13, 2019 8:26 pm

erudite450 wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 7:30 pm
simieski wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 1:02 pm
Just a thought...
I think Hamilton would have won this race irrespective of who was in the lead at T1. Assuming Hamilton would have stayed with Bottas like he did in Baku, they would have pitted Bottas first and Hamilton would have got the advantage of pitting under the safety car, coming out ahead of Bottas.
I couldn't agree more! Another way of looking at it, if Bottas was able to match Hamilton's pace - as he suggested he could have - they would have brought Hamilton in first and he (Bottas) would have jumped him (Hamilton) during the SC period.
Jenson Button put it best.

When asked where Hamilton’s pace came from between Qualy and the race he just answered ‘That’s just Lewis’. His point was I think that sometimes a driver is just that good.
Look at Mark Webber when he commented that ‘us mortals would have that in the gravel’ when talking about Hamilton catching the car in a twitchy moment.

I keep saying this but we are watching a driver who like others (Senna, Schumacher, Prost, etc ) will leave an unfillable hole when he is gone. Instead of berating/disliking him for his choices off the track it would be far better to watch one of the best drivers in history on it.
Last edited by Restomaniac on Mon May 13, 2019 8:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Zynerji » Mon May 13, 2019 8:30 pm

Lewis is reaching Undisputed status as the GOAT. Even with the best car, he still makes close to zero mistakes.

Jolle
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Jolle » Mon May 13, 2019 8:42 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:30 pm
Lewis is reaching Undisputed status as the GOAT. Even with the best car, he still makes close to zero mistakes.
I think his last mistake with consequences was Baku 2016, Q3.... three years ago...

Zynerji
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Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Zynerji » Mon May 13, 2019 8:49 pm

Jolle wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:42 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:30 pm
Lewis is reaching Undisputed status as the GOAT. Even with the best car, he still makes close to zero mistakes.
I think his last mistake with consequences was Baku 2016, Q3.... three years ago...
I can appreciate the level that he has been operating at since 2007. Honestly, his "because I'm black" quote in Monaco a few years ago rather turned me off to him, but it was said as a joke and not serious.


I think the GOAT status needs to be applied to the driver that made the least mistakes over the one that won the most. While I agree that any contemporary driver to the Ferrari/Renault/RBR/Merc eras would have won in those cars, I do not think all of them could have been mistake free enough to seize the title. This is where Lewis is truly the standout IMHO, and we have yet to see him in a controversy on the level of Prost/Senna in 1989 or Schumacher/Hill in 1994...

Jolle
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Location: Dordrecht

Re: 2019 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 10-12

Post by Jolle » Mon May 13, 2019 9:08 pm

Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:49 pm
Jolle wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:42 pm
Zynerji wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:30 pm
Lewis is reaching Undisputed status as the GOAT. Even with the best car, he still makes close to zero mistakes.
I think his last mistake with consequences was Baku 2016, Q3.... three years ago...
I can appreciate the level that he has been operating at since 2007. Honestly, his "because I'm black" quote in Monaco a few years ago rather turned me off to him, but it was said as a joke and not serious.


I think the GOAT status needs to be applied to the driver that made the least mistakes over the one that won the most. While I agree that any contemporary driver to the Ferrari/Renault/RBR/Merc eras would have won in those cars, I do not think all of them could have been mistake free enough to seize the title. This is where Lewis is truly the standout IMHO, and we have yet to see him in a controversy on the level of Prost/Senna in 1989 or Schumacher/Hill in 1994...
Like all athletes, artists, constructors and other humans, they are not perfect from the get-go. Of course Hamilton had his brush with controversy, the Alonso spat, The "thingy" with lying at AUS 2009 and of course the frustration of 2011 where he got penalty after penalty and he said "Maybe because I'm black". Plus don't forget those races in 2010/2011 where he had trouble getting clean trough the first lap.

But!! great but... he matured and rubbed out all his weak spots so far that he's pretty perfect.