The most critical factor you’re overlooking is whether the number of chicanes/hairpins present are enough to make up for time lost on the straights.Schuttelberg wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 8:49 am
All four circuits mentioned by you have hairpins/chicanes or are really start/stop in nature. Ferrari's straight line speed offset to Mercedes is very little (unless you believe the blasphemy that Toto and lately his drivers have been dishing out) but the time is won and lost in those twisty bits. I expect a monumental struggle even on these tracks, specially if they can't reel in the tyres.
Maybe. It's all about the ratio on any circuit.dans79 wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 1:40 pmYep, take a look at Canada.
I think the hairpin will be very painful for them, as Merc and RBR will carry a lot more speed through it.
- Turn 1 - 160 Kph
- Turn 2 - 85 Kph
- Turn 3 - 145 Kph
- Turn 6 - 115 Kph
- Turn 8 - 135 Kph
- Turn 10 - 80 Kph
- Turn 13 - 150 Kph
The key point is that, all other things being equal, the higher downforce car will brake later (downforce), carry more speed through the corner (downforce) meaning they start the next straight with a higher initial speed (thanks to downforce already helping as noted). More speed at the start of the straight means more downforce which can, in some cases, help traction out of the corner, again helping performance on the early part of the straight. Indeed, until the drag hits them, the higher downforce car will be winning for much of the straight and might only lose out on top speed.Phil wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 2:01 pmI think the point is that a car with less downforce will lose time in pretty much any corner (that benefits from downforce), but the longer the straight, the more the car with superior acceleration will make up. If that deficit will be overcome against the car with a higher cornering speed depends obviously on how big the straight line speed advantage is.
I truly believe that the tyres are making the gap look bigger, but it's blasphemy to believe that the Ferrari is anywhere near the Mercedes. If you believe that the Ferrari's advantage on the straight > Mercedes advantage in the corners, then you're just taking us for the same ride that Toto and his beloved are. Mercedes are NOT 0.3-.0.4 slower than the red cars in the straight line and Baku was proof of it. A tenth? Certainly. Two? At best. One and a half? In my opinion, about that much. Just look at how much Vettel lost to Bottas in their Q3 laps comparison in the last chicane and corner. Partly down to tyres, partly downforce. Mercedes will be strong everywhere and the moment they're in with a chance when Ferrari are marginally stronger, they have the strategy team to knock out Ferrari. Not to mention, they've had the rub of the green in the previous few years.Phil wrote: ↑Fri May 17, 2019 6:24 pmYour point doesnt refute mine. Indeed downforce is important, but downforce in this case comes at the expense of drag. Straight line performance is itself dependant on power and drag. Then there is tire performance (grip).
What factor carries how much importance depends on the type of track. The underlying argument; those writing Ferrari off because of their S3 performance at Barcelona are probably not accounting for the tire playing a crucial factor there. Using that particular case to draw a conclusion about how the car will perform on another completely different track (i.e. Canada) is probably not very accurate.
Good points.yelistener wrote: ↑Sat May 18, 2019 2:29 pmI did some rough frame comparison of Q3 onboard during Bahrain GP, and Ferrai was indeed half a second faster than Mercedes on straights. And that's even based on Mercedes getting a better exit at almost every corner. But of cause that's just Q3.
In Baku Q3 Mercedes tricked Vettel and other cars, so they ended up getting a tow while Vettel was one in the front punching air. And IIRC Ferrari used bigger rear wing in Baku.
Ferrari is clearly not just 0.15-0.2s faster on straights. In Spain Q3, Vettel was 0.2s faster than Bottas in S1 alone.
https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... fication-9
But of cause, the straight advantage is no where near making up their loses at (medium & low speed) corners.