Silly Season 2018/2019

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SiLo
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by SiLo » Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:27 pm

Pyrone89 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:50 am
How about Ocon replacing Grosjean for the remainder of the season, Haas gets a better driver and has time to look for a 2020 replacement, Ocon and his future employer happy because he can get back in the race ritum already instead of having to waste the first races at his new employer to do that. If Haas plays it smart they can even get some money on top of it from Ocon’s future employer for that service
I have read this in a few places from people that have very close course in the paddock. I'd be surprised if they could get it done before the next grand prix but I think Grosjeans time in F1 is up, probably should have been a while ago to be honest as he makes to many mistakes.
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Big Tea » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:23 pm

I was unable to find anyone as a 'reserve' or 'test' driver for Haas, is this correct? I was thinking they might be the best choice for a half season.
Does anyone know if ilot has enough points to qualify for F1?
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by NathanOlder » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:31 pm

Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:23 pm
I was unable to find anyone as a 'reserve' or 'test' driver for Haas, is this correct? I was thinking they might be the best choice for a half season.
Does anyone know if ilot has enough points to qualify for F1?
No chance, he probably doesn't have half the points you need.
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Jolle » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:38 pm

I don't see Vergne or Wehrlein betting career and a good payday at Ferrari stepping in a car that isn't performing well with a team that doesn't understand why. Plus, stepping in the HAAS you'll probably or most certainly be beater quite by a margin by Magnussen who has more experience with this difficult car. I can only see either of them stepping in if they are on loan from Ferrari themselves.

Vandoorne a bit of the same story, only with a singed contract from HAAS for 2020 I see one of these three step into that seat, also it's career suicide.

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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by dtro » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:05 pm

SiLo wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:27 pm
Pyrone89 wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:50 am
How about Ocon replacing Grosjean for the remainder of the season, Haas gets a better driver and has time to look for a 2020 replacement, Ocon and his future employer happy because he can get back in the race ritum already instead of having to waste the first races at his new employer to do that. If Haas plays it smart they can even get some money on top of it from Ocon’s future employer for that service
I have read this in a few places from people that have very close course in the paddock. I'd be surprised if they could get it done before the next grand prix but I think Grosjeans time in F1 is up, probably should have been a while ago to be honest as he makes to many mistakes.
Completely agree with regards to Grosjean needing to be dropped years ago, but so many stayed beyond their tenure like Maldonado/Chilton among others did in recent years. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Gunther sees merit in at least keeping the same drivers in the car till the end of the year.

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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by sAx » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:28 am

Pyrone89 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 pm
djos wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:47 am
zeph wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:28 am
I think Hamilton’s legendary status is already secured. No need to drive for Ferrari.
Agreed, he'd just damage his reputation - he's best to retire a Mercedes hero.
Disagree, with winning a WDC at Ferrari he can show that he is not just a very good but 1x WDC who got a bunch of free titles and wins in the most dominant team to ever grace the sport.
If you put Max (Chilton!) in the Merc he would be a 5X WDC, or Webber or Jolyon or Buemi or Vergne or Button or Grosjean or di Resta or Bourdais or Chandok or Karthikeyan or Maldonado or... (all of them beating Rosberg on the way!). As i understand it the Merc is actually that good, it doesn't actually require a driver!! Just a bunch of free titles... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Pyrone89
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Pyrone89 » Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:35 am

sAx wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:28 am
Pyrone89 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 pm
djos wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:47 am


Agreed, he'd just damage his reputation - he's best to retire a Mercedes hero.
Disagree, with winning a WDC at Ferrari he can show that he is not just a very good but 1x WDC who got a bunch of free titles and wins in the most dominant team to ever grace the sport.
If you put Max (Chilton!) in the Merc he would be a 5X WDC, or Webber or Jolyon or Buemi or Vergne or Button or Grosjean or di Resta or Bourdais or Chandok or Karthikeyan or Maldonado or... (all of them beating Rosberg on the way!). As i understand it the Merc is actually that good, it doesn't actually require a driver!! Just a bunch of free titles... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Button yes, Rosberg yes, Webber yes, Verge would at least be a multi-WDC but he would have lost some. With the others you are just trolling. It is obvious that I was meaning that other good drivers would have also racked up these titles because of the car, no need to be an elite driver (which Hamilton still is). But his stats and Schumachers are massively inflated because of the cars and competition they had vs Senna, Prost, Laude, Clark etc.

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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by roon » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:59 am

Pyrone89 wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:35 am
sAx wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:28 am
Pyrone89 wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 pm


Disagree, with winning a WDC at Ferrari he can show that he is not just a very good but 1x WDC who got a bunch of free titles and wins in the most dominant team to ever grace the sport.
If you put Max (Chilton!) in the Merc he would be a 5X WDC, or Webber or Jolyon or Buemi or Vergne or Button or Grosjean or di Resta or Bourdais or Chandok or Karthikeyan or Maldonado or... (all of them beating Rosberg on the way!). As i understand it the Merc is actually that good, it doesn't actually require a driver!! Just a bunch of free titles... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Button yes, Rosberg yes, Webber yes, Verge would at least be a multi-WDC but he would have lost some. With the others you are just trolling. It is obvious that I was meaning that other good drivers would have also racked up these titles because of the car, no need to be an elite driver (which Hamilton still is). But his stats and Schumachers are massively inflated because of the cars and competition they had vs Senna, Prost, Laude, Clark etc.
Indeed. We saw what happened when Button was given a (mostly) dominant car. WDC. Same for Vettel. I assume a similar case could be made for Schumacher.

Merc and presumably Brawn pulled off the ultimate regulations coup in the lead up to 2014, far better even than Brawn's double-diffuser stunt. One that is not easily replicated. DDF, F-ducts and EBD are all relatively easy to understand and copy. Mastering the fuel limited turbo hybrids... Not so much. Six years of proof lay before us.

Consider how visible the aero devices are, and how invisible the powertrain components are. Think about how easy they are to reverse engineer. BrawnGP and RB struggled to maintain their leads compared to Mercedes in the turbo era, with their victory switches and sandbag toggles. When your trick turning vanes and your new wing shapes, your DDFs and your EBDs, are all hidden inside of bodywork, encased in monoliths of metal, buried within inscrutable code, your tricks become well guarded, indeed.

I like how the more aero dominant formulas of the 90s and 00s forced teams to release their IP to their competitors, simply by the nature of aero components being external and visible. It did not take long for everyone to throw an F-duct on their cars. This is why some on this forum (I think of Zynerji) advocate for the exchange of powertrain IP.

GPR-A
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by GPR-A » Sat Jul 20, 2019 7:19 am

roon wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:59 am
Merc and presumably Brawn pulled off the ultimate regulations coup in the lead up to 2014, far better even than Brawn's double-diffuser stunt. One that is not easily replicated. DDF, F-ducts and EBD are all relatively easy to understand and copy. Mastering the fuel limited turbo hybrids... Not so much. Six years of proof lay before us.
Errr.... 6 years? Starting 2017, Ferrari has the most powerful PU. It reflects with the way Williams and Force India slipped to the back of the field.

Phil
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Phil » Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:58 am

Hamilton going to Ferrari to prove anything is ridiculous, just as little as he did by going to Mercedes after winning at McLaren already. You’re only as good as your car, anyway. If Hamilton had stayed at McLaren, look at how his legacy had unfolded instead.

He’ll stay at Mercedes for as long as it makes sense, and the way the stars are aligned, it’ll be for a long time.

Ps: not that i think he’d do bad at Ferrari. But why take the risk?
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Zarathustra
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Zarathustra » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:21 am

roon wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:59 am

Indeed. We saw what happened when Button was given a (mostly) dominant car. WDC. Same for Vettel. I assume a similar case could be made for Schumacher.
Not Schumacher IMHO.

Schumacher not always had the best car.

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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Zarathustra » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:31 am

Phil wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:58 am
Hamilton going to Ferrari to prove anything is ridiculous... - ...why take the risk?
Motivation?

Hamilton knows that he currently is part of the best package. Perhaps he will find new motivation by bringing back the titels to Ferrari- and create an ‘immortal legacy’ for himself a long the way?

IMHO I still think winning with a Ferrari is different- even for Hamilton.

Also imagine what it would do if Hamilton beats the Mercs- in a Ferrari.

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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Phil » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:41 am

That stuff is old school. Teams now have hundreds if not thousand of employees that are all part of the success of the team. In the end, once he retires, all that will ever matter is how many championships he will have. No one will care how he got them or how they were won, just as little as people will remember Hamilton's great drives like last year in Monza or Hockenheim. Over time, all that will stay with people is the number of championships he won. Depending on how one's performance goes, some might not even remember that and focus on the performance of his last races. Just look at Vettel - a 4 time world champion. Now everyone seems to talk of is how many mistakes he made in races he should have won.

Going to Ferrari and finding a team in a structural and organizational mess outweighs any benefit he might gain by adding to a "false legacy".
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by Zarathustra » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:54 am

IMHO people who are part of a major ‘success formula’ for some time, will want to find new challenges..?

They ‘want’ to proof to themselfs that they can do it again, somewhere else- somewhere new?

I guess that’s also why winning WDC’s with multiple teams is rated so highly.

Ps.
Didn’t Hamilton mention that he wanted to make Mercedes the most successfull team in F1 history?
It depends on how you look at it, but by winning this years titels- they will be the most successfull team with 6 straight WCC’s + WDC’s ...

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Re: Silly Season 2018/2019

Post by NathanOlder » Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:59 pm

Zarathustra wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:54 am

Ps.
Didn’t Hamilton mention that he wanted to make Mercedes the most successfull team in F1 history?
It depends on how you look at it, but by winning this years titels- they will be the most successfull team with 6 straight WCC’s + WDC’s ...
He can't be talking about titles or wins as Merc are so so so far behind Ferrari and even Mclaren.
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