Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

[Just_a_fan]

Or perhaps Mercedes are just better at F1.

[Pyrone89]

Or perhaps Mercedes are just better at F1.

Yeah Newey and co really are unproven in their career.

[Just_a_fan]

Irrelevant. Mercedes are doing the best job at the moment. Thus, they are doing F1 better than the others.

If "the living God that is Newey" improves and starts winning more races than the others, then RedBull will be doing F1 better than the others.

Quite simple really.

[djones]

Newey is a really special designer and had a good team around him. This won championships.

But Mercedes is now showing that it's actually more powerful to have a good designer and special team.

[roon]

To answer the question, 'why are they winning so much?' with 'because they are winning' is avoidant. JaF's aversion to inquiry is similar to the superstition which JaF just strawmanned about. Merc spend roughly 50% more per year at a team level than RB do. They have a bespoke powertrain division next to them spending an unknown amount, and they stand upon the industrial base of an automotive multinational. These elements should not be brushed aside.

If the concept of CFD loopholes offend you, perhaps take a look at the oil composition and consumption section which was added to the 2018 technical regulations. These sorts of things are common in the sport and not necessarily illegal. RB themselves got away with using pistons as moveable aero devices for years.

[izzy]

To answer the question, 'why are they winning so much?' with 'because they are winning' is avoidant. JaF's aversion to inquiry is

I don't think we can call that 'enquiry' can we, it was 100% malicious speculation

[Maplesoup]

Maybe they are somehow circumventing the CFD and windtunnel limits by having Daimler do the ‘fundamental research’ into concepts and perhaps even what shapes and features work and which not, leaving the team to use their regulation limited CFD processing power and windtunnel time 100% for the car design optimizing. That is the only thing I can think of. Just like Ferrari circumvented this with their Haas collaboration in 2015 (Haas was not yet bound by the regulations limits as they were not yet a competitor, Ferrari then used a trick with lending out personnel and more to basically get unlimited windtunnel time)

If that is true they would be instantly disqualified. One of the most important rules is that a team has to develop their own aero etc, it can't be outsourced. We've seen alot of issues with Ferrari b teams using the Ferrari wind tunnel and suddenly having very similar concepts. If another team suspected that was the case in merc's case it would of been raised and investigated

[erudite450]

To answer the question, 'why are they winning so much?' with 'because they are winning' is avoidant. JaF's aversion to inquiry is

I don't think we can call that 'enquiry' can we, it was 100% malicious speculation

Exactly! It's all about Newey, isn't it? A well run team like Mercedes couldn't possibly design a quick car.

[roon]

To answer the question, 'why are they winning so much?' with 'because they are winning' is avoidant. JaF's aversion to inquiry is

I don't think we can call that 'enquiry' can we, it was 100% malicious speculation

We can. That you took offense does not mean malice was intended. I dont think any of us fully understand how much compute power is used to develop these cars and how much of it falls with regulatory definition.

Exactly! It's all about Newey, isn't it? A well run team like Mercedes couldn't possibly design a quick car.

You lampoon your own premise, which is the assumption that some sort of nebulous innate worth explains an accumulation of championship points. Quantification offends the bandwagon.

[subcritical71]

Maybe they are somehow circumventing the CFD and windtunnel limits by having Daimler do the ‘fundamental research’ into concepts and perhaps even what shapes and features work and which not, leaving the team to use their regulation limited CFD processing power and windtunnel time 100% for the car design optimizing. That is the only thing I can think of. Just like Ferrari circumvented this with their Haas collaboration in 2015 (Haas was not yet bound by the regulations limits as they were not yet a competitor, Ferrari then used a trick with lending out personnel and more to basically get unlimited windtunnel time)

If that is true they would be instantly disqualified. One of the most important rules is that a team has to develop their own aero etc, it can't be outsourced. We've seen alot of issues with Ferrari b teams using the Ferrari wind tunnel and suddenly having very similar concepts. If another team suspected that was the case in merc's case it would of been raised and investigated

I think it’s important to distinguish between cheating and working in the gray areas. In the case above that would be cheating and I don’t think any of the teams would risk that type of exposure. Now, if there is a gray area to exploit I believe every team with sufficient resources would jump at it until a clarification is made. That is why the bigs are able to get above the smalls, they can afford to invest more in the gray areas for a few races improvement with the risk that it becomes banned or limited in some way. A smaller team has to spend their money on upgrades that will see longer paybacks.

[izzy]

To answer the question, 'why are they winning so much?' with 'because they are winning' is avoidant. JaF's aversion to inquiry is

I don't think we can call that 'enquiry' can we, it was 100% malicious speculation

We can. That you took offense does not mean malice was intended. I dont think any of us fully understand how much compute power is used to develop these cars and how much of it falls with regulatory definition.

Not knowing is not knowing, that's not the same as doing a Maybe based on nothing. I'm not offended, just noticing that inventing something belittling like that needs a motive, and since he had zero evidence to motivate him what are we left with? And then i notice you calling that an inquiry, when it's not seeking an answer it's trying to conjure one up.

You can say it's possible, then what? an infinite variety of things are possible and that doesn't make us go round reciting them does it? Fact is we can see how this car's developed over a lot of years, there's nothing to be suspicious about

[hollus]

This is the Mercedes-AMG Petronas W10 offical car thread.

Please discuss ONLY technical items of this car, and refrain from speculation.

General discussion about the team, its drivers and performance can be posted in the team thread.

Livery Talk also belongs in the Team Thread. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27823

[Pyrone89]

What I was suggesting would be a gray area. It is the same as askimg a university to do more research in specific aero principles and shapes that work, just that this university happens to be Daimler. Not sure why some react so stung, as Ferrari did it before in a different way and it was legal yet a very grey area. Seems to have struck a nerve somewhere.

[M840TR]

[MtthsMlw]

Is that what I think it is?