Mercedes W11

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
PhillipM
PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Seems like it, then he's taken it and run with it. :wtf:

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214270
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Mark4211 wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:37 pm
They have started using other BBAL offset values apart from .5%.

Pictured: 56.8% BBAL

https://i.imgur.com/FSWtDSI.png
I don’t think this is new
The name’s Hondo...

Diesel
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Dreameagl wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:35 pm
I guess Mark Hughes had a moment of confusion (toe vs camber) in his article here:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... PCKC4.html
Typically an F1 car will be set up so that its front wheels are aligned with ‘toe-out’, which simply means that they splay out at the bottom away from the centre of the car, with the top pointing inwards.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
#-o He did an analysis piece after one of the McLaren car launches several years ago where he claimed the concept was a dud and it wouldn't be a contender... it turned out to be the quickest car that season. One of those people that just lucked in to their job :roll:
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP

zac510
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Re: Mercedes W11

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henry wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:35 pm
enri_the_red wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:47 pm
henry wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:10 pm


They do. Up to the size limits in the regs. And they change the incidence with steering angle using a cam on the hub end ball joint. @Platinum Zealot posted about this recently.
rules about the steering or rules about the suspensions?
Rules about suspension elements. There are allowed to be up to 6 elements per wheel. My expectation is that these are: two for the upper wishbone, two for the lower, one push or pull rod and one for the track rod (steering arm). The regulations don’t specify these and other configurations that meet these rules would have to be allowed.

IMO Steering is an alignment function using elements of the suspension not a separate physical system. The rules allow re-alignment using this function. The rule writers didn’t expect that the re- alignment might be change in toe. They do now and have written this option out of the 2021 regulations.
I agree with your expectation.
However I'm still interested to see if other teams can come up with some fresh ideas given the alternative interpretation in place for 2020. Often the first person/team to innovate does not receive the long term benefits of the innovation as another team takes the idea and develops it better.

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hollus
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Re: Mercedes W11

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A few uses have asked that "someone" start a separate thread about the legality of this system. I would like to point out that all users have this magic power to start a new thread in different sections of the forum. In cases like that... please, go ahead!

In any case, it seems that "someone" (thanks!) was aware of such powers and already has opened a thread about the legality of this system:

DAS Dual Axis Steering...Legality??
¡Puxa Esportin!

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SiLo
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Re: Mercedes W11

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https://v.redd.it/h4zvt2y23ji41

Someone on reddit posted their mock up of how the DAS system could work. Now I look at it this way it seems incredible simple.

Apologies if this actually originated form here!
Felipe Baby!

GioKer32
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Does anyone know which is the normal toe-out used in Formula 1? And i'd also like to know if Mercedes, using the DAS, can increase this angle. I think that toe-out in the other cars must be a compromise between corners and straights, probably Merc is able to run a more extreme configuration without losing speed in the straight.

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214270
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Re: Mercedes W11

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SiLo wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:32 am
https://v.redd.it/h4zvt2y23ji41

Someone on reddit posted their mock up of how the DAS system could work. Now I look at it this way it seems incredible simple.

Apologies if this actually originated form here!
The simplicity is incredible.
The name’s Hondo...

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izzy
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Re: Mercedes W11

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GioKer32 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:33 pm
Does anyone know which is the normal toe-out used in Formula 1? And i'd also like to know if Mercedes, using the DAS, can increase this angle. I think that toe-out in the other cars must be a compromise between corners and straights, probably Merc is able to run a more extreme configuration without losing speed in the straight.
yes i was thinking this. And now they've got it basically cleared, i wouldn't be surprised if a Version2 arrives on Wednesday, with as you say a bigger range of angle and perhaps more change of camber as well, and an intermediate position or even continuous adjustment with a locking lever

Just_a_fan
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Re: Mercedes W11

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I don't think they need added complexity. I think they want it so they can run a bit more toe for better cornering but then remove it for stability on the straights along with front tyre life.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

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atanatizante
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Re: Mercedes W11

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The 2020 Mercedes F1 Car Explained!



Coming soon at their YT channel on 6 PM!

Stay tuned!
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

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F1Krof
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Re: Mercedes W11

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atanatizante wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:58 pm
The 2020 Mercedes F1 Car Explained!



Coming soon at their YT channel on 6 PM!

Stay tuned!
I just don't understand why would they do this? It makes no sense to me.
Wroom wroom

GrizzleBoy
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Re: Mercedes W11

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F1Krof wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:20 pm
atanatizante wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:58 pm
The 2020 Mercedes F1 Car Explained!



Coming soon at their YT channel on 6 PM!

Stay tuned!
I just don't understand why would they do this? It makes no sense to me.
1.
Last year of these regs. Probably doesnt matter if other teams have their designs. I.e. racing point.

2.
Sponsor visibility bonuses.

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MtthsMlw
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Re: Mercedes W11

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Also they are not really revealing anything.

PhillipM
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Re: Mercedes W11

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214270 wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 2:43 pm

The simplicity is incredible.
Because it doesn't account for the large amount of backlash that would be needed on the sliding splines and the fact that there's both a hydraulic shuttle valve and the piston on the rack - which would now need to float on one rack piece with a seal and drive all it's assist forces back through the pinion gears to the other rack half, instead of just on the single bar.
People seem to forget there's a hydraulic circuit in there for power steering.
Last edited by PhillipM on Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.