Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Racer X
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:55 pm
Phil wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:05 pm
Wynters

I don't think we disagree on much here. I agree police brutality should be kept in check. I agree police officers who use too much force should be held accountable. I agree the color or race of a person should not make a difference in how that person is approached by the police.

The only thing I am arguing is, that many incidents are overblown in the media or by the public to be racially motivated when there is no proof of that. If we analyze each incident, I am sure we can see that in most cases, resisting an arrest or unnecessary provocation lead to an unfortunate outcome.

I don't mean to step on anyones toes here, but sometimes I feel that people of color are quicker to feel they are being unfairly treated because of their skin color before considering other possibilities. The current narrative in the media and the whole BLM movement is only increasing that perception and thus, increasing a problem that may exist, but not to the degree it's being made out.
Some are but only a minority. And they have a fair reasons for feeling that way. Call it post traumatic stress disorder or whatever.

It does happen. Because you are not on the receiving end why you may not understand. In the Engineering world, knowing that when a minority calls for service even after paying fully, their claims are not believed 90% of the time because they are not white, is a very common thing. Measurements are always questioned...Manufacturer flies over from Europe and to go and measure themselves and lo and behold they get the same. Then they fly back to Europe and make a change in the design, then you see the design released as "version 2.0" :lol: Very common theme!
That's why we have out whitest white guy at our company put on his whites white voice. Afterwards we get mad internally but yeah i think subconsciously we tend to question and double check the work of Colored Engineers and trust the work of White ones with no double checking. Its an interesting speed bump but is not an obstacle. If anything it just slows down the process.
SENNA

dans79
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Phil wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:05 pm
I don't mean to step on anyones toes here, but sometimes I feel that people of color are quicker to feel they are being unfairly treated because of their skin color before considering other possibilities. The current narrative in the media and the whole BLM movement is only increasing that perception and thus, increasing a problem that may exist, but not to the degree it's being made out.
I think it's a good bit more complicated than that. I think a big part of it is related to social economics, and home life. I've known a lot of people of color over my life from across the spectrum, and I've seen stark differences in how they perceive society, and their place in it. I would also say society treats them differently based on their perceived social economic status as well.

I don't think BLM is the issue, I think it's social media, mainstream media clinging to relevance, and politics.

In my opinion the mainstream media hypes up almost everything now regardless of topic, because they are fighting tooth and nail with "new media" and social media for relevancy. In some cases I have seen mainstream media sensationalize things to the point of bordering on criminal action. New media is far to biased in my opinion, math that doesn't add up, facts that aren't even close to correct, and in some cases blatant agenda validation.

Imo, politics is making everything worse. Now that we have a global 24/7/365 news cycle, it seems politicians spend 90% of the time campaigning against their next adversary, instead of doing their job. Not to mention the instant social media feedback they get that feeds their egos.

Social media is by far the worst. 20 years ago if you were a nut the only people who had to listen to you were people who personally knew you. Now the craziest people on the planet can reach thousands or even millions of people by ranting on social media.

imo, all of this leads to society being more hostile in general regardless of topic.
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strad
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Numbers shot to death by the cops
In 2020: White 172 Black 88
in 2019: White 370 Black 235
In 2018: White 399 Black 209
In 2017: White 457 Black 223
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/
the Washington Post keeps track of these numbers as well. You can look it up.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

nzjrs
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:22 pm
imo, all of this leads to society being more hostile in general regardless of topic.
The crazy thing is, it's only going to get worse!

Globalization of the American unrest, in the middle of a pandemic, preceeding an economic downturn (depression?) !
Last edited by nzjrs on Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ENGINE TUNER
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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strad wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:39 pm
Numbers shot to death by the cops
In 2020: White 172 Black 88
in 2019: White 370 Black 235
In 2018: White 399 Black 209
In 2017: White 457 Black 223
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/
the Washington Post keeps track of these numbers as well. You can look it up.
The numbers depend on police reports which are very false. I have been arrested by the cops in america and was listed as white when my skin AND my driver's license clearly say otherwise. The police in america are professional liars and that is the only part of their jobs that they are good at.
Last edited by Steven on Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed off-topic BS

dans79
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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strad wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:39 pm
Numbers shot to death by the cops
In 2020: White 172 Black 88
in 2019: White 370 Black 235
In 2018: White 399 Black 209
In 2017: White 457 Black 223
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/
the Washington Post keeps track of these numbers as well. You can look it up.
Those numbers by themselves don't say much. For example, a person with one point of view would argue black people only make up 12 to 15% of the population, and those numbers don't reflect that. A person with a different view would argue black people commit a disproportionately high number of violent crimes and thus are more likely to have a violent interaction with police.

In short the water is a lot muddier than it might seem at first glance.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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turbof1 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:40 pm
about single mindedly focussing on one race, etc. While:
Yes... because... Black people started BLM! in response to the systemic racism against them in the USA. Black and White have a strong interconnected history in the states, so it stems from that. To omuch stuff to cover here. You know the movie "How to train your dragon?' There had few manuals on "how to train and breed and punish your slaves" back then. You see, according to government papers back then Black people were not considered humans. Only 5/8th human! Imagine that! And have been fighting for just to be given equal rights and justice since.
-Defunding the police isn't going to solve having officers who can't control themselves. Rather, I'd see a raise in funding and all of that raise going to proper training in stress management and situation assessment.
True. But know that the leader of Black Lives Matter has stated that contrary to some of his colleagues, he doesn't not advocate de-funding the police. The thing with these sort of movements is there are different factions with differing views.
-Something popular in my country: Congo, a former colony of Belgium, should be getting payment as restitution for the horrible deeds of our former king Leopold II. Now granted, that *sshole did horrible things. However, paying back damages to Congo right now will not go the people as the political situation there is highly volatile. They are better off sending a peaceforce in there, dethrown and dismantle the current political situation and putting up fair democratic elections.
This is true. The corruption is too high to be giving money directly to some governments. But other direct measures can be taken I suppose. As you know Belgium did some nasty things, man. Inhumane!
-The BLM movement should really encompass more than just one race.
NAh. It is specifically for Black people because of historical reasons. However, I hope that any good that comes from it also helps for everyone.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!

Jolle
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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strad wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:39 pm
Numbers shot to death by the cops
In 2020: White 172 Black 88
in 2019: White 370 Black 235
In 2018: White 399 Black 209
In 2017: White 457 Black 223
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/
the Washington Post keeps track of these numbers as well. You can look it up.
And how many where strangled with cuffs on? And how many were killed for getting a packet of cigarettes? Or for driving with a broken tail light? Or in front of their own home? The list goes on and on and on.

When you’re white you can provoke the police by using your right to open carry in a busy shopping street or even inside a local congress, shouting profanities in a cops face. Imagine doing that if you’re black....

Gothrek
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Racer X wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:11 pm
So then purely from an Engineering point of view have you questioned and worried when Lotus, Renault, Haas & other teams have painted their cars black or does the purely Engineering concern/point of view more of a concern if its a BLM livery.
Why are you always bringing that up? I have 0 concern why it is a black livery.
Lotus/Renault/Haas are not really the top running teams are they? I am just curious if it might effect Mercedes in any why, as I have no clue how black paint has any influence or not. That is why I am interested. In F1 ever 0.1% matters, so just curious if the black paint, which absorbs more heat, has any impact at all. Or not?

dans79
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:50 pm
When you’re white you can provoke the police by using your right to open carry in a busy shopping street or even inside a local congress, shouting profanities in a cops face.
Just to be clear they got away with open carry in that particular building, because open carry is legal in that state, and in that particular government building. If they had done it in a different building the swat team would have been all over them.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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ENGINE TUNER wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:48 pm

Yes, people of color should just accept the oppression silently or else the occupying force in our communities have the right to be judge jury and executioner. Since the whites came into the western hemisphere and murdered the natives and shipped in Africans for cheap labor, the decedents of those Africans MUST accept the furthered oppression of whites until the end of time. White supremacy has won and it must stay forever/s

The police in ameriKKKa are the foot soldiers of ameriKKKan white supremacy. They impose racist laws on people who they have no right to think they have authority over. Who gave the police authority over you, me or anyone else? An inner city cop can not go on a native reservation and try to assert authority because he has none because the natives has been given sovereignty, sovereignty is what the black community in ameriKKKa has sought but only received further oppression. Black people have every right to fight oppression in ameriKKKa, it has EVERYTHING to do with skin color.
Tuner!

I bet most people on here didnt know what the original police was for! :)
I keep telling posters to do their research!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/4 ... 3famp=true
In cities, increasing urbanization rendered the night-watch system completely useless as communities got too big. The first publicly funded, organized police force with officers on duty full-time was created in Boston in 1838. Boston was a large shipping commercial center, and businesses had been hiring people to protect their property and safeguard the transport of goods from the port of Boston to other places


In the South, however, the economics that drove the creation of police forces were centered not on the protection of shipping interests but on the preservation of the slavery system. Some of the primary policing institutions there were the slave patrols tasked with chasing down runaways and preventing slave revolts, Potter says; the first formal slave patrol had been created in the Carolina colonies in 1704. During the Civil War, the military became the primary form of law enforcement in the South, but during Reconstruction, many local sheriffs functioned in a way analogous to the earlier slave patrols, enforcing segregation and the disenfranchisement of freed slaves.

https://libcom.org/history/stop-kidding ... am-mitrani

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Jolle
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:59 pm
Jolle wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:50 pm
When you’re white you can provoke the police by using your right to open carry in a busy shopping street or even inside a local congress, shouting profanities in a cops face.
Just to be clear they got away with open carry in that particular building, because open carry is legal in that state, and in that particular government building. If they had done it in a different building the swat team would have been all over them.
Ask a black guy what would happen to him in the same situation... he would probably be shot before he is inside the building, although there are laws to protect him.

Tommy Cookers
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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75 years since WW2 was ended .....

soon enough for a Mercedes sermon on race relations ?

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strad
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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Tell ya what ET.. Tell us of these horrible experiences. Exactly when? exactly where? As I have said before if what you say is true you would have lawyers lining up to take your case and enough money to retire in Monaco .
Where was this arrest? What was it for?
Please tell us more.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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strad wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:39 pm
Numbers shot to death by the cops
In 2020: White 172 Black 88
in 2019: White 370 Black 235
In 2018: White 399 Black 209
In 2017: White 457 Black 223
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/
the Washington Post keeps track of these numbers as well. You can look it up.
Strad.. Think of how many UNREPORTED black people are not on there. Maybe even triple that number.

In America on police documents.. As long as your are light skin, striaght haired, and not obviously "Mestizo"... (and similar to Formula 1 too actually!) you are white. It is just simpler to identify and simpler to file.

Who can be described as White by Police in a chase:
Jewish (Example Alain prost)
Cuban
Peurto Rican
Italian
German
Irish
Greek
Brazilian (eg. Barichello, Massa)
Venezuelan (eg. Maldonado.. well sorta! )
Scottish
English



A whole bunch a groups and cultures can pass as white in America when the police are trying to Identify. So.. The numbers are to be interpreted carefully. Also remember african american people are only 13% of the population.
Not driving a Mercedes? Work harder!