Phil wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:15 pm
Schuttelberg wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:38 am
History doesn't always mean it tells the future but it does suggest that while Mercedes has been making beasts on the track, their YDP has been a big waste/sham. After Hamilton, they've promoted exactly nobody and Wehrlein and Ocon both were ready for the step up but Bottas continues.
I'm not sure the "competition" is much better in what their YDP achieves. RedBull has effectively put all their eggs in Max's basket - the result being that they lost Daniel Riccardo. Along the way, they have alienated drivers with huge prospects (-> Buemi, Alguarsuari), one of which has continued to be very successful.
If they lose Max, good luck with their remaining drivers, as none of them seem up to the job of stepping up. There's also the fact that every year, F2 produces a new champion and new talent, but F1 drivers generally tend to stay a couple of years and have long careers (10+ years). With limited seats and drives, it can't add up.
Mercedes also doesn't have a second team (like RedBull has). All they can do is make it more lucrative for their customer teams to take their junior drivers. Some might be willing to, not all might want to. Torro-Rosso, I mean Alpha Tauri doesn't have a choice.
Same applies to Ferrari somewhat. Who is their next young prospect after Leclerc? Giovinazzi?
It seems that you're unable to accept any criticism of Mercedes. I'll still try to make my views clearer-
The "competition" is streets ahead of Mercedes in this regard and Daimler could be caught pants down if Hamilton decides to do something else. They were extremely fortunate that it was Rosberg who quit 2016 and not Hamilton because if you pitch the idea of a Bottas/Rosberg line up, it won't float with fans, sponsors, results and it's a domino effect.
Let's first look at Ferrari- They currently have Leclerc already at 21/22 in the main team. He's won races and is absolutely ready for the big time. He may not beat Hamilton in equal cars, but he will run him close and I believe with a slightly better car (regularly 0.1 seconds ahead), he will beat him.
They now have Sainz who in my opinion is absolutely in the top brass of drivers. I don't think he's a match for Verstappen mile for mile but he's every bit as good as Leclerc.
So you're talking about two absolutely top drivers that will be with the team for a while. At least the next 3-5 years. That's a lot of stability and probably their peaks in terms of speed.
I think Illot, Scwartzman, Schumacher are all waiting in the wings. I expect at least two of them to make it to F1 and at least one to be able to play a good enough rear gunner role although I think Illot will win races at least.
Also, it's extremely convenient for you to forget Bianchi who was clearly being groomed for the Ferrari seat and I actually believe he would have been a decent match for Vettel and now Leclerc too. That he passed away, is simply unfortunate but it doesn't speak lesser of the FDA.
Let's now look at Red Bull- Max is there. End of. I find the criticism of Red Bull in Daniel's matter just laughable. Daniel has been on a rant for 2 years about his move and without turning a wheel in 2020 he decided to jump ship again. He has clearly said that in terms of equipment or opportunity, Red Bull never compromised him. He simply had run his course with them. At the same time, he isn't off the same opinion as RBR of the crash at Baku with Max.
To me, it's very obvious that Daniel is simply impatient to be in a winning car and he is utterly and totally confused. Red Bull did not abandon him and because of their loyalty to him, they ended up losing Sainz as well who is another product of the same academy.
I think Alex has been at RBR for less than a year. To jump teams mid way and now have the car he has to drive, have a podium t-boned and then a race win as well. I think people love to just look at a sheet of paper with the results on it and be "oh look at his stats, he is rubbish."
There is a reason the likes of Leclerc, Russell and Verstappen are defending him and a reason why a Vettel fan like me feels RBR would be insane to opt for Vettel in his place. He's been excellent in his junior career, his race pace has been on point in F1 and he was qualifying well at STR but clearly he is struggling with something on Saturday in the senior team. It is only fair that he's at least given this season to prove himself.
Gasly I feel is another very god young driver. RBR gave him a chance and it didn't work out but it doesn't mean he can't get another chance.
Kvyat I think is the least likely to progress but he also had a chance at the senior team.
I think of the previous lot, Buemi and Vergne could have got more chances but the RBR YDP is just a ruthless machine.
It is safe to conclude that RBR has been the best team in terms of giving young talent a chance and not just a chance at the bread crumbs but at the whole turkey, so to speak. Vettel, Ricciardo, Kvyat, Verstappen, Gasly and now Albon. Had it not been for Ricciardo, Sainz would have 100% been driving for the senior team as well. I think to give 6 drivers a chance in 7 years in a big team, that's a pretty damn impressive programme and both Vettel and Sainz might drive for them too.
Let's now take a look at Mercedes- They funded Hamilton and thank you to them for that but it was really Ron Dennis who pushed for him to take the McLaren seat right of the bat. I think without a culture for YDP's it's really hard to ascertain who made the call. Let's just assume that it was Mercedes. I think if we are being fair, the first time they really could put someone in the car from their own programme was Wehrlein in 2016? I mean, the guy had tested for them, beaten all his team mates to a pulp and was clearly absolutely ready for the move but a shareholder in the team decided to promote a driver he himself managed. I don't know how such a conflict of interest happens, but whatever. I think Bottas also deserved his chance so to speak at that stage but Mercedes basically just made no use of investing in Wehrlein. I think the next chance presented itself in 2019 where Ocon would have to sit out. I think Ocon is another guy in the same bracket as Leclerc, Verstappen etc and ffs the guy was even money with Perez so early in his career who is a seasoned veteran with absolutely no weaknesses as a F1 driver. Yet, Mercedes decided to keep Bottas when it's absolutely evident that he's a number 2. He will not
compete with Hamilton. The same process was basically copy pasted in 2020 with Ocon and now there's Russell as well.
How many young drivers did Mercedes promote? 0.
In all probability, Ocon will be a journeyman and never get a shot at the big time because Russell's stocks are higher at this stage and Hamilton will continue for 2-3 years. If, Mercedes make another unbeatable monster in 2022 which I think they will, this pair could go on longer and Russell will move elsewhere. But,
one day Hamilton will let go and Mercedes look like they're willing to be caught pants down when that happens.
"Sebastian there's very, you're a member of a very select few.. Stewart, Lauda, Piquet, Senna, Prost, Schumacher, Fangio.. VETTEL!"