2020 Formula 1 70th Anniversary Grand Prix - Silverstone, August 7-9

[lh13]

S'funny how people are suddenly happy to see tyres that fall apart when only recently they were saying how rubbish the tyres are. because they fall apart.

It is all perspective, if their favorite driver or the dominant team loses even with rock solid tyres or falling apart tyres, they will go for what suits their agenda, so

Oh indeed. So long as it gives the outcome they want, they'll go for it.

I'd like tyres that can be driven hard by all drivers, not just some drivers. The championship is between teams and between drivers, not between tyres. The tyres shouldn't be the headline.

Max did a great job today, no doubt, and that was because his car allowed him to do so on those tyres as they behaved on the day.

To your last message where you quoted me, I am not trying to pick up a fight. Not a fan of Mercedes and RedBull, neither of their drivers. But I do think that the bit in bold is unfair. Although it is true, this is true in case of Hamilton as well. However many races he has won, it is because of the car. Saying such in case of one driver and not the other is how you start the fight on the forum.

[GPR-A]

It is all perspective, if their favorite driver or the dominant team loses even with rock solid tyres or falling apart tyres, they will go for what suits their agenda, so

Oh indeed. So long as it gives the outcome they want, they'll go for it.

I'd like tyres that can be driven hard by all drivers, not just some drivers. The championship is between teams and between drivers, not between tyres. The tyres shouldn't be the headline.

Max did a great job today, no doubt, and that was because his car allowed him to do so on those tyres as they behaved on the day.

In my opinion he was also personally helped by a severe brain fade moment by the Mercedes strategy team. They could have esilly made it through Q2 on the hards just as Max did.

They also could have trimmed the car in a way to ensure it was easier on the tires because as was seen in qualifying they have an exceptional amount of pace over the rest of the field.

It's kind of like Germany last year. They seem to need a slap to the head every season to remind them they're not unbeatable.

The fundamental problem, was to go with so much downforce, despite knowing the situation of the tyres. May be they thought they can pull off quickly and manage the tyres, which didn't happen as the tyres were far more in difficult situation than they expected. These tyres can't take so much downforce.

[notsofast]

It might be a good idea to lock the race thread for a few hours after each race. Let everyone blow off steam on other forum websites before we resume discussion of the technical aspects of the race.

[JordanMugen]

The fundamental problem, was to go with so much downforce, despite knowing the situation of the tyres. May be they thought they can pull off quickly and manage the tyres, which didn't happen as the tyres were far more in difficult situation than they expected. These tyres can't take so much downforce.

Pirelli specifically made improved, more robust 2020-specification 13" that are designed to handle more downforce but these were rejected by the teams who preferred to use 2019 tyres again. Given this, it can hardly be Pirelli's fault!

[Just_a_fan]

Max won that race by his instinctive "no, I'm not going to drive like a granny" response to the team's telling him to back off. If he had done so, Max might not have won that, or at least not so easily. A good racer's call there and then. Sometimes it bites you, sometimes it gets results.

The RedBull and Ferrari both seem to be easy on the tyres compared to the Mercs. Leclerc's pace was good at the end on very old tyres.

The Mercedes were quite quick in 2013 as well but were rubbish on their rubber. Seems to be the case this year, hopefully Red Bull developing the aero plus hotter temperatures and higher tire pressures evens things out and we can have a good championship. It's a bonus that the majority of the championship will be in hotter weather, as summer lasts into October. Plus finishing in the Middle East which is a desert.

Remember that today's tyre selection was "artificial" with the tyres being picked specifically to engineer the problems seen today. I've no doubt that the intention wasn't to help RedBull specifically, but just to force the teams to do extra stops. I doubt Liberty were expecting the Mercs to have the issues they did today, more that were hoping the extra stops would force varying strategies - which it did.

I hope that they don't try to artificially control the championship with the tyres.

[GPR-A]

It might be a good idea to lock the race thread for a few hours after each race. Let everyone blow off steam on other forum websites before we resume discussion of the technical aspects of the race.

They will never do that! I have said that multiple times and have also told the mods a few times to limit the number of posts an individual can have, but they don't. So let's have merry, it helps the user traffic situation and the ad revenue.

[GPR-A]

The fundamental problem, was to go with so much downforce, despite knowing the situation of the tyres. May be they thought they can pull off quickly and manage the tyres, which didn't happen as the tyres were far more in difficult situation than they expected. These tyres can't take so much downforce.

Pirelli made improved, more robust 2020-specification that are designed to handle more downforce but these were specifically rejected by the teams who preferred to use 2019 tyres again. In this case, it can hardly be Pirelli's fault!

Write it completely. Teams had asked Pirelli to manufacture tyres that doesn't suffer thermal degradation, which they failed to do and brought tyres that were way too slower than last year's tyres. So everyone rejected them.

[Just_a_fan]

It is entirely normal that technical regulation changes be made for political reasons in Formula One!

Do it between seasons, fine, no problem with that. Do it mid season to "spice things up"? That's amateur hour stuff.

[HPD]

Movistar F1
Toto: "I don't think Pirelli will increase the tire pressure for Barcelona. Unless you want to change the order of the grid"

[Brake Horse Power]

Today was the nail on the coffin of the low rake concept

[JordanMugen]

Do it between seasons, fine, no problem with that. Do it mid season to "spice things up"? That's amateur hour stuff.

The V8 Supercar championship cut the downforce twice on the Ford Mustang during the 2019 season, and increased the downforce on the rival Holden Commodore three times. Even though that is a parity series, and the Mustang in the original condition proved it complied with the downforce limits (350 kgf at 200km/hr) in the pre-season airfield test. (V8 Supercars is too cheap to use a wind tunnel, so Ford Performance USA pushed the unregulated downforce in yaw to the maximum when they designed the bodykit but crucially it DID comply at 200 km/hr in a straight line where it needs to comply, by the letter of the rules.)

That followed an earlier in-season rule change where a minimum centre of gravity rule was introduced despite no former precedent, requiring Mustangs to carry 28 kg of ballast in the roof (since the mainly carbon Mustang bodykit is a lot lighter the other bodykits).

The modifications to be made [to the Mustang] are the reduction in the dimensions of the [rear wing] end plate, lowering the height of the rear wing gurney flap and a reduction in length of the front undertray extension.
April 2019
Reference: https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/04/23/mu ... confirmed/

I.e., mid-season changes to penalise the leading team or car in a FIA series is normal.

So you can be glad that at least the FIA aren't requiring the Mercedes-Benz to strap 28kg to their roll hoop, and then what that doesn't "work" (at stopping them winning) cutting the size of their aerodynamic devices twice, and then when that still doesn't working adding more aerodynamics to the rival cars three times!

[The Commodores will have] the addition of a gurney to the rear wing endplates along the trailing edge and the extension of the front undertray.
September 2019
Reference: https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/12/fi ... o-changes/

I hope that they don't try to artificially control the championship with the tyres.

Yet it was OK for Ferrari to be eliminated from the 2005 F1 championship, which potentially would have given Schumacher his 8th WDC racing an improved F2004 on improved 2004 Bridgestones, by an artificial tyre regulation? That makes no sense!

The precedent is set: that tyres, mass-damper bans, exhaust position rules (to target Red Bull's blown exhaust exit aimed at the diffuser, so Red Bull had to go chase a complicated coanda effect solution instead) and other things are routinely used to compromise the leading team.

[godlameroso]

Max won that race by his instinctive "no, I'm not going to drive like a granny" response to the team's telling him to back off. If he had done so, Max might not have won that, or at least not so easily. A good racer's call there and then. Sometimes it bites you, sometimes it gets results.

The RedBull and Ferrari both seem to be easy on the tyres compared to the Mercs. Leclerc's pace was good at the end on very old tyres.

The Mercedes were quite quick in 2013 as well but were rubbish on their rubber. Seems to be the case this year, hopefully Red Bull developing the aero plus hotter temperatures and higher tire pressures evens things out and we can have a good championship. It's a bonus that the majority of the championship will be in hotter weather, as summer lasts into October. Plus finishing in the Middle East which is a desert.

Remember that today's tyre selection was "artificial" with the tyres being picked specifically to engineer the problems seen today. I've no doubt that the intention wasn't to help RedBull specifically, but just to force the teams to do extra stops. I doubt Liberty were expecting the Mercs to have the issues they did today, more that were hoping the extra stops would force varying strategies - which it did.

I hope that they don't try to artificially control the championship with the tyres.

That would only be the case if Pirelli were supplying different tires to different teams, however we have no indication of that. If the tires are the same for everyone then it's up to the teams to make them work over both qualifying and a race distance and in the environment they function in.

If some teams can't make the rubber function properly that's not Liberty's problem, that's a Mercedes problem, as they have the same tires as everyone else.

[Just_a_fan]

It is all perspective, if their favorite driver or the dominant team loses even with rock solid tyres or falling apart tyres, they will go for what suits their agenda, so

Oh indeed. So long as it gives the outcome they want, they'll go for it.

I'd like tyres that can be driven hard by all drivers, not just some drivers. The championship is between teams and between drivers, not between tyres. The tyres shouldn't be the headline.

Max did a great job today, no doubt, and that was because his car allowed him to do so on those tyres as they behaved on the day.

To your last message where you quoted me, I am not trying to pick up a fight. Not a fan of Mercedes and RedBull, neither of their drivers. But I do think that the bit in bold is unfair. Although it is true, this is true in case of Hamilton as well. However many races he has won, it is because of the car. Saying such in case of one driver and not the other is how you start the fight on the forum.

The driver can only win if the car allows him to do so. Anyone who thinks drivers win titles in sub-standard cars is living on a cloud. Would Michael or Lewis have won all their titles in MInardis? No, of course not.

Max won today because his car worked the tyres better than the Mercs did. If the Mercs had been the same on the tyres as the RedBull, Max would have been third. I don't think anyone would argue with that, would they? The Mercs would have won because it would have been the better car on the tyres. But the Merc was a bad car on the tyres today and the RedBull was a great car on the tyres. So Max won. That's all I was saying. Max still had to drive the car and win the race and hence why I said he did a great job today. to Max and RedBull. to Mercedes.

[GPR-A]

The Mercedes were quite quick in 2013 as well but were rubbish on their rubber. Seems to be the case this year, hopefully Red Bull developing the aero plus hotter temperatures and higher tire pressures evens things out and we can have a good championship. It's a bonus that the majority of the championship will be in hotter weather, as summer lasts into October. Plus finishing in the Middle East which is a desert.

Remember that today's tyre selection was "artificial" with the tyres being picked specifically to engineer the problems seen today. I've no doubt that the intention wasn't to help RedBull specifically, but just to force the teams to do extra stops. I doubt Liberty were expecting the Mercs to have the issues they did today, more that were hoping the extra stops would force varying strategies - which it did.

I hope that they don't try to artificially control the championship with the tyres.

That would only be the case if Pirelli were supplying different tires to different teams, however we have no indication of that. If the tires are the same for everyone then it's up to the teams to make them work over both qualifying and a race distance and in the environment they function in.

If some teams can't make the rubber function properly that's not Liberty's problem, that's a Mercedes problem, as they have the same tires as everyone else.

Golden statement. Will keep a note of this. Will be very handy in days to come.

[dans79]

The fundamental problem, was to go with so much downforce, despite knowing the situation of the tyres. May be they thought they can pull off quickly and manage the tyres, which didn't happen as the tyres were far more in difficult situation than they expected. These tyres can't take so much downforce.

Pirelli made improved, more robust 2020-specification that are designed to handle more downforce but these were specifically rejected by the teams who preferred to use 2019 tyres again. In this case, it can hardly be Pirelli's fault!

Write it completely. Teams had asked Pirelli to manufacture tyres that doesn't suffer thermal degradation, which they failed to do and brought tyres that were way too slower than last year's tyres. So everyone rejected them.

yep, currently has never been able to fully give the teams and liberty/from/FIA what they want.

A few years back when my wife got a new car and we immediately replaced the pirellis that came with it. Just like there F1 tires they degraded exceptionally fast and where garbage in the rain.