[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

[Phil]

People can criticize Bottas all they want - there's no way of knowing if anyone else would/could do a better job against Hamilton.

RedBull arguably have a much bigger problem, if for some reason, Verstappen ever found a way to get out of his contract. Albon & Gasly (last year) are miles off Verstappen, more so than Bottas is off Hamilton. Mercedes, being the team they are, could easily get any driver if Hamilton were to call it a day...

[ENGINE TUNER]

In order for people to glorify Hamilton's performance, they first have to make Bottas look good, an equal competitor etc.

The guy got outqualified by half a second in Belgium, by more than a second in a wet Styrian GP. Can't keep up with Hamilton once he is ahead. Fluffs the starts, despite having a comfortable second position to then lose two GPs. Despite having a dominant car, is still behind Verstappen.

Senna outqualified Prost by over 1.4s IN MONACO... and outqualled him by over .5s OVER THE ENTIRE 88 SEASON AVERAGE. ROS was outqualled by far more than .5s on many occasions, and fluffed many starts. Get some perspective

I think Rosberg was better on the races itself than Bottas ever was though. Bottas seems to get stuck on whatever place he was at after the first 5 laps of a race. Rosberg on the other hand would still be able to fight back up to the front. The lack of tenacity on Bottas' part is holding him back IMO.

Think what you want, but you are wrong. ROS made so many mistakes in races, especially under pressure, that he started to just crash into HAM rather than just give up the position. BOT is making less mistakes in races than ROS did. The only people BOT isn't passing is HAM and VER.

[El Scorchio]

People can criticize Bottas all they want - there's no way of knowing if anyone else would/could do a better job against Hamilton.

RedBull arguably have a much bigger problem, if for some reason, Verstappen ever found a way to get out of his contract. Albon & Gasly (last year) are miles off Verstappen, more so than Bottas is off Hamilton. Mercedes, being the team they are, could easily get any driver if Hamilton were to call it a day...

True. Everyone would bite Merc's hand off to get a drive for them, clearly! I think you'd see a change in RBR which would make other drivers more competitive. They'd stop designing the car to solely benefit the style of one driver and it would probably make it much more driveable for anyone else who stepped in. I don't think it's a coincidence the 'real' Gasly has reappeared since moving back to a team where the drivers are on equal footing and he's becoming really competitive in a lesser car.

[e30ernest]

Senna outqualified Prost by over 1.4s IN MONACO... and outqualled him by over .5s OVER THE ENTIRE 88 SEASON AVERAGE. ROS was outqualled by far more than .5s on many occasions, and fluffed many starts. Get some perspective

I think Rosberg was better on the races itself than Bottas ever was though. Bottas seems to get stuck on whatever place he was at after the first 5 laps of a race. Rosberg on the other hand would still be able to fight back up to the front. The lack of tenacity on Bottas' part is holding him back IMO.

Think what you want, but you are wrong. ROS made so many mistakes in races, especially under pressure, that he started to just crash into HAM rather than just give up the position. BOT is making less mistakes in races than ROS did. The only people BOT isn't passing is HAM and VER.

Well, he hasn't passed Vettel in the standings until last year though. I posted a list of WDC 2nd place finishers over the Merc era in another thread:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.

The only advantage I can see with the Mercs sticking to Bottas is that he's just good enough to score enough points to give the team the WCC, but nowhere good enough to challenge Hamilton.

The closest Bottas got to Hamilton was in 2017 where he was 58 points behind. Rosberg's worst was 67 points behind Hamilton while Bottas' was 161 points behind in 2018.

2013 was the year Hamilton and Rosberg first went head to head and the only year they were together in a car that wasn't the top of the field. Hamilton took 4th and Rosberg 6th just 18 points behind.

[ENGINE TUNER]

I think Rosberg was better on the races itself than Bottas ever was though. Bottas seems to get stuck on whatever place he was at after the first 5 laps of a race. Rosberg on the other hand would still be able to fight back up to the front. The lack of tenacity on Bottas' part is holding him back IMO.

Think what you want, but you are wrong. ROS made so many mistakes in races, especially under pressure, that he started to just crash into HAM rather than just give up the position. BOT is making less mistakes in races than ROS did. The only people BOT isn't passing is HAM and VER.

Well, he hasn't passed Vettel in the standings until last year though. I posted a list of WDC 2nd place finishers over the Merc era in another thread:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.

The only advantage I can see with the Mercs sticking to Bottas is that he's just good enough to score enough points to give the team the WCC, but nowhere good enough to challenge Hamilton.

The closest Bottas got to Hamilton was in 2017 where he was 58 points behind. Rosberg's worst was 67 points behind Hamilton while Bottas' was 161 points behind in 2018.

2013 was the year Hamilton and Rosberg first went head to head and the only year they were together in a car that wasn't the top of the field. Hamilton took 4th and Rosberg 6th just 18 points behind.

Get off your phone, put down the calculator and watch the actual races.
Unfortunately, even going back and watching the old races wont give you the entire context. Hamilton utterly DOMINATED Rosberg in 14 and 15, to the same degree that HAM dominated BOT in 17 and 18. BOT had about as much experience as STR has now when he got tabbed for Merc.

[Wass85]

I think Rosberg was better on the races itself than Bottas ever was though. Bottas seems to get stuck on whatever place he was at after the first 5 laps of a race. Rosberg on the other hand would still be able to fight back up to the front. The lack of tenacity on Bottas' part is holding him back IMO.

Think what you want, but you are wrong. ROS made so many mistakes in races, especially under pressure, that he started to just crash into HAM rather than just give up the position. BOT is making less mistakes in races than ROS did. The only people BOT isn't passing is HAM and VER.

Well, he hasn't passed Vettel in the standings until last year though. I posted a list of WDC 2nd place finishers over the Merc era in another thread:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.

The only advantage I can see with the Mercs sticking to Bottas is that he's just good enough to score enough points to give the team the WCC, but nowhere good enough to challenge Hamilton.

The closest Bottas got to Hamilton was in 2017 where he was 58 points behind. Rosberg's worst was 67 points behind Hamilton while Bottas' was 161 points behind in 2018.

2013 was the year Hamilton and Rosberg first went head to head and the only year they were together in a car that wasn't the top of the field. Hamilton took 4th and Rosberg 6th just 18 points behind.

After 2011, 2013 is Hamilton's worst season in F1.

I bet at that time must have been questioning their star buy.

[Jolle]

Think what you want, but you are wrong. ROS made so many mistakes in races, especially under pressure, that he started to just crash into HAM rather than just give up the position. BOT is making less mistakes in races than ROS did. The only people BOT isn't passing is HAM and VER.

Well, he hasn't passed Vettel in the standings until last year though. I posted a list of WDC 2nd place finishers over the Merc era in another thread:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.

The only advantage I can see with the Mercs sticking to Bottas is that he's just good enough to score enough points to give the team the WCC, but nowhere good enough to challenge Hamilton.

The closest Bottas got to Hamilton was in 2017 where he was 58 points behind. Rosberg's worst was 67 points behind Hamilton while Bottas' was 161 points behind in 2018.

2013 was the year Hamilton and Rosberg first went head to head and the only year they were together in a car that wasn't the top of the field. Hamilton took 4th and Rosberg 6th just 18 points behind.

After 2011, 2013 is Hamilton's worst season in F1.

I bet at that time must have been questioning their star buy.

2013? five poles, one win, one almost win (British GP), five podiums, stopped development on the car for 2014 and beat his sitting teammate over the year, 4th in the driver championship and 2nd in the team championship... it was a pretty good year and he performed well as the team expected in presume. The car had tire issues, not a bad driver.

[erudite450]

Think what you want, but you are wrong. ROS made so many mistakes in races, especially under pressure, that he started to just crash into HAM rather than just give up the position. BOT is making less mistakes in races than ROS did. The only people BOT isn't passing is HAM and VER.

Well, he hasn't passed Vettel in the standings until last year though. I posted a list of WDC 2nd place finishers over the Merc era in another thread:

2019 - Bottas (Merc) 87 points behind Ham, 48 ahead Vers
2018 - Vettel (Ferrari) 88 points behind Ham, 69 ahead Rai
2017 - Vettel (Ferrari) 46 behind Ham, 12 ahead Bot
2016 - Ham (Merc) so I guess this counts as a Merc win. Ham 5 points behind Ros, 124 ahead of Ric
2015 - Rosberg (Merc) 59 behind Ham, 44 ahead of Vet
2014 - Rosberg (Merc) 67 behind Ham, 79 ahead of Ric

Kinda shows how good Rosberg is against Bottas IMO. 2014-2016 were basically Mercedes 1-2 on the WDC. Bottas only got 2nd through on 2019. Maybe the competition was closer the past 3 seasons, but Bottas being just 3rd on 2017, and 5th in 2018 just doesn't look that good.

The only advantage I can see with the Mercs sticking to Bottas is that he's just good enough to score enough points to give the team the WCC, but nowhere good enough to challenge Hamilton.

The closest Bottas got to Hamilton was in 2017 where he was 58 points behind. Rosberg's worst was 67 points behind Hamilton while Bottas' was 161 points behind in 2018.

2013 was the year Hamilton and Rosberg first went head to head and the only year they were together in a car that wasn't the top of the field. Hamilton took 4th and Rosberg 6th just 18 points behind.

After 2011, 2013 is Hamilton's worst season in F1.

I bet at that time must have been questioning their star buy.

Seriously, I'd like to have whatever it is you just had. 2013, a bad year for Hamilton? Goodness me!

[Wass85]

It was not a stellar year by any means.

[Jolle]

It was not a stellar year by any means.

And in what way did he disappoint the team that they had to question their buy? Or are you just trolling your "Hamilton is ---" opinion here?

[Wass85]

It was not a stellar year by any means.

And in what way did he disappoint the team that they had to question their buy? Or are you just trolling your "Hamilton is ---" opinion here?

In the way he barely beat Rosberg who was getting payed a fraction of the cost.

If he had an Alonso 2010 season then yes it would have been a "great" year for him.

[Wass85]

Can people stop with the cry of troll whenever they don't like what they read about their driver.

I personally don't think 2013 was a good year for Hamilton. Rosberg ran him way too close for my liking.

Now of course it wasn't a bad year obviously, but it was nothing like an Alonso 2010 or a Ricciardo 2014.

[Big Tea]

I think the Hamilton v Rosberg years have to be looked at carefully. No way can anyone say Rosberg was a poor driver, but some years, especially his winning year, he was not fighting the same Hamilton others have. He freely admits he got into Hamilton's head in the way only a team mate can. Hamilton did not have the supreme confidence in himself, his car and his team then that he does now, and has had since. I dont know if it is exaggerating to say he was mentally fragile, but he did not have the 101% mastery he has now.

To compare anyone else to Hamilton is using a different scale.

[dtro]

It was not a stellar year by any means.

Mercedes in 2013 was still building towards 2014 and beyond. In 2012 it looked like a massive move backwards when Hamilton announced he'd be signing with Merc. In 2013 McLaren started their move backwards and Hamilton took a win or two in a car that ate through tyres like a man going through toiler paper fighting a bout of violent diarrhea. It wasn't stellar to the extent that he didn't win a championship... yes, but if we look at the last seven years- moving to Mercedes in 2013 and making the most out of the package has paid dividends since then.

[Mchamilton]

People can criticize Bottas all they want - there's no way of knowing if anyone else would/could do a better job against Hamilton.

RedBull arguably have a much bigger problem, if for some reason, Verstappen ever found a way to get out of his contract. Albon & Gasly (last year) are miles off Verstappen, more so than Bottas is off Hamilton. Mercedes, being the team they are, could easily get any driver if Hamilton were to call it a day...

True. Everyone would bite Merc's hand off to get a drive for them, clearly! I think you'd see a change in RBR which would make other drivers more competitive. They'd stop designing the car to solely benefit the style of one driver and it would probably make it much more driveable for anyone else who stepped in. I don't think it's a coincidence the 'real' Gasly has reappeared since moving back to a team where the drivers are on equal footing and he's becoming really competitive in a lesser car.

albon said in in the interview he did with sky f1 at the weekend. all through his career he's been able to run more front end on his cars than all his team mates and rivals, untill he got in the redbull, where max is able to run even more. so it seems red bull have definitely tried to design a super pointy car to suit max, but its at the detriment of the other driver.