2020 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, September 4 - 6

[SiLo]

So apparently Formula E has things announced via Radio to the drivers from race control? is this true?

[Fulcrum]

My take- it's so rare the pit lane is closed during a race and it's usually pretty obvious, like there's debris there or a car stuck there. This was a bit unusual and probably flagged there should be a tweak to communication. Hamilton, Merc, Gio and Alfa fell foul of the rules so the penalty is just. You can argue it's unlucky and there was no intention to commit foul play but it is what it is and the rules are the rules!

As for SC vs VSC, my feelings are the same. I believe they are doing it 'for the show' and to artificially mix races up, which is plain wrong. I know there's the argument there are less stewards this season which is convenient although I don't really buy it. I also don't understand why they needed to stop the race yesterday rather than SC which seemed enough of a measure for the Leclerc crash? I think the stoppage and restart was purely for the show as well, and yes it's exciting having a second full start, it was really unfair on a couple of drivers and teams, and destroyed a lot of hard work from some of them.

First off, the sole objective of FIA using SC is safety. Ever since Jules' accident, the safety of drivers and of course, track marshals is of highest priority than the desires of audience watching race. No blaming Masi on that to continue being the torch bearer.

Did u watch F2 race this weekend?
Both the races had 2 Virtual safety cars in feature race and 1 virtual safety car in sprint race when they had on the same track with same marshals and same FIA delegats
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/310 ... a35a9a.jpg
Look at that, a crane on the first corner and they didnt even put a full course safety car, just virtual safety car
But we had a full course safety car and closed pit lane for a car stopping well off the racing line and near a orange barrier

Please dont say that lives of the same marshal's in an F2 race is less valuable and also the F2 driver's lives also dont matter.

This artificial changing of f1 race has been there for long long time
And it is indeed Masi's fault
Last year he let go Leclerc without any penalty, but now this year Albon got penalty for even less
What heppend to the black orange flag? is that taken out only in convenient situations?

All this indicates is F2 safety protocols are potentially more lackadaisical than F1.

It would be unwise to use that as a mechanism to suggest F1 should become less strict in this regard. Lest some forget, F2 recorded a driver death last year, quite possibly precipitated by debris on track.

Cranes and/or marshals on track should automatically trigger a safety car.

[NathanOlder]

Pretty easily, I would say the worst F1 driver I have seen.

Thats harsh on Massa, or please tell me your not talking about Bottas ? If Bottas is the worst F1 driver you have seen, you clearly have only watched the 2 Mercedes cars this year and no other car in F1 ever. Come on man , be serious.

[matt_b]

They gave Lewis and Giovinazzi the strongest penalty available, of course if it was wet and they only had a few seconds to react I would presume they would've got the same 5 second time penalty Danny Ric got in Brazil 2016 for entering the pit lane when it was closed, we will never know though.

Entering a closed pitlane carries a predefined 10 seconds stop&go penalty. In 2016 Ricciardo got just a 5 second penalty because at the time there wasn't a fix penalty, it was added in 2017.

Thanks for clearing that up, so if the 2016 incident happens again it would be a slam dunk 10 second stop and go penalty.

[NathanOlder]

Yes, Hamilton was able to overtake many cars, but he also overtook more slower cars relative to Bottas who was in the midst of more competitive cars. He also was stuck behind traffic longer, which meant his car was also overheating and he was under constant pressure from Max most of the time.

Exactly, Bottas was stuck in the first stint, with Max right behind him. Max had no chance to pass Bottas even though Bottas was lapping as slow as the cars in front of him. Overtaking wasn't as easy as people think here. Plus the Merc didnt have the top speed than some had.

[NathanOlder]

So apparently Formula E has things announced via Radio to the drivers from race control? is this true?

You do hear the race director a lot announcing things over the radio, you hear it on the tv feed. So I guess the drivers will get the same if they want it.

[SiLo]

So apparently Formula E has things announced via Radio to the drivers from race control? is this true?

You do hear the race director a lot announcing things over the radio, you hear it on the tv feed. So I guess the drivers will get the same if they want it.

Amazed this isn't the same in F1, it seems so simple and would solve a lot of issues for teams. All it takes is missing one flag and it can ruin your race, but expecting drivers to be able to always see the flags is silly imo. These guys are racing around at 150mph+, changing things on the dash and looking at corner apexes they need to hit.

[cooken]

First off, the sole objective of FIA using SC is safety. Ever since Jules' accident, the safety of drivers and of course, track marshals is of highest priority than the desires of audience watching race. No blaming Masi on that to continue being the torch bearer.

Did u watch F2 race this weekend?
Both the races had 2 Virtual safety cars in feature race and 1 virtual safety car in sprint race when they had on the same track with same marshals and same FIA delegats
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/310 ... a35a9a.jpg
Look at that, a crane on the first corner and they didnt even put a full course safety car, just virtual safety car
But we had a full course safety car and closed pit lane for a car stopping well off the racing line and near a orange barrier

Please dont say that lives of the same marshal's in an F2 race is less valuable and also the F2 driver's lives also dont matter.

This artificial changing of f1 race has been there for long long time
And it is indeed Masi's fault
Last year he let go Leclerc without any penalty, but now this year Albon got penalty for even less
What heppend to the black orange flag? is that taken out only in convenient situations?

All this indicates is F2 safety protocols are potentially more lackadaisical than F1.

It would be unwise to use that as a mechanism to suggest F1 should become less strict in this regard. Lest some forget, F2 recorded a driver death last year, quite possibly precipitated by debris on track.

Cranes and/or marshals on track should automatically trigger a safety car.

In the case of Magnussen the objective was to keep people out of the pit lane. In what way does a SC accomplish this, when 99% of the time an SC means an immediate call to the pits? VSC would have neutralized the race sufficiently, and provided less incentive for mass pit entry, and therefore may have actually been the safer option.

[SiLo]

Did u watch F2 race this weekend?
Both the races had 2 Virtual safety cars in feature race and 1 virtual safety car in sprint race when they had on the same track with same marshals and same FIA delegats
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/310 ... a35a9a.jpg
Look at that, a crane on the first corner and they didnt even put a full course safety car, just virtual safety car
But we had a full course safety car and closed pit lane for a car stopping well off the racing line and near a orange barrier

Please dont say that lives of the same marshal's in an F2 race is less valuable and also the F2 driver's lives also dont matter.

This artificial changing of f1 race has been there for long long time
And it is indeed Masi's fault
Last year he let go Leclerc without any penalty, but now this year Albon got penalty for even less
What heppend to the black orange flag? is that taken out only in convenient situations?

All this indicates is F2 safety protocols are potentially more lackadaisical than F1.

It would be unwise to use that as a mechanism to suggest F1 should become less strict in this regard. Lest some forget, F2 recorded a driver death last year, quite possibly precipitated by debris on track.

Cranes and/or marshals on track should automatically trigger a safety car.

In the case of Magnussen the objective was to keep people out of the pit lane. In what way does a SC accomplish this, when 99% of the time an SC means an immediate call to the pits? VSC would have neutralized the race sufficiently, and provided less incentive for mass pit entry, and therefore may have actually been the safer option.

yes but it doesn't artificially spice up the race as much! I know there have been issues in the past but Race Control seems to be safety conscious to the point of detriment these days.

[sosic2121]

You are funny. Stupid.... but funny. Thanks for cheering up my Sunday

I think that saying that Wass and Lewis are stupid is not "politically correct". Maybe you could say that they are not as smart as James...

[i70q7m7ghw]

Sooo the pit lane closure procedure is documented as part of the event notes issued by the race director, here's the part in question:

5) Track light panel displaying pit entry status
5.1 The light panel indicated on the pit lane map will display a flashing yellow arrow if cars are required
to use the pit lane once the Safety Car has been deployed during the race.
5.2 The light panel indicated on the pit lane map will display a flashing red cross if the pit lane is closed
at any point during the race.

Full document available here: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... on%203.pdf

I wonder if this is something that teams/drivers actively read each weekend and check out as part of the "track walk"...

[El Scorchio]

First off, the sole objective of FIA using SC is safety. Ever since Jules' accident, the safety of drivers and of course, track marshals is of highest priority than the desires of audience watching race. No blaming Masi on that to continue being the torch bearer.

Did u watch F2 race this weekend?
Both the races had 2 Virtual safety cars in feature race and 1 virtual safety car in sprint race when they had on the same track with same marshals and same FIA delegats
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/310 ... a35a9a.jpg
Look at that, a crane on the first corner and they didnt even put a full course safety car, just virtual safety car
But we had a full course safety car and closed pit lane for a car stopping well off the racing line and near a orange barrier

Please dont say that lives of the same marshal's in an F2 race is less valuable and also the F2 driver's lives also dont matter.

This artificial changing of f1 race has been there for long long time
And it is indeed Masi's fault
Last year he let go Leclerc without any penalty, but now this year Albon got penalty for even less
What heppend to the black orange flag? is that taken out only in convenient situations?

All this indicates is F2 safety protocols are potentially more lackadaisical than F1.

It would be unwise to use that as a mechanism to suggest F1 should become less strict in this regard. Lest some forget, F2 recorded a driver death last year, quite possibly precipitated by debris on track.

Cranes and/or marshals on track should automatically trigger a safety car.

I think the issue is more that why is a VSC deemed ok in non F1 races where it's not in F1 races? The Magnussen thing is a prime example of something VSC is almost tailor made for. That's a FAR less hazardous situation than the one in the picture yet it's full safety car? We were told VSC wouldn't happen this year because of lack of marshalls- clearly that's not true if it happens in F2. Agree that safety is paramount but why does this prove or suggest that F2 isn't properly run? It's all under the same banner and I'd expect if there were concerns that it would follow the same protocol as F1. Horrible as it was, the Hubert accident is a bit irrelevant to this discussion.

Like I said, Masi admitted he has one eye on the 'spectacle' so I can't help but think the proliferation of full SC this season is absolutely related to that in order to add the extra element of lottery and uncertainty to 'liven up' a race. Whether he's been asked to or whether it's his call is another matter, but either way it's not his job to make it a spectacle or to interfere unnecessarily in a race which may alter the result- which it absolutely does do at times.

[El Scorchio]

You are funny. Stupid.... but funny. Thanks for cheering up my Sunday

I think that saying that Wass and Lewis are stupid is not "politically correct". Maybe you could say that they are not as smart as James...

It's not a question of being smart. Hamilton isn't a strategist so it's not in his remit to have all the permutations and outcomes in his mind. It is in Vowles' remit. Hamilton just questioned what they were planning and Vowles simply explained why it was the plan. Storm in a teacup which got stirred too much on here.

[Fulcrum]

Did u watch F2 race this weekend?
Both the races had 2 Virtual safety cars in feature race and 1 virtual safety car in sprint race when they had on the same track with same marshals and same FIA delegats
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/310 ... a35a9a.jpg
Look at that, a crane on the first corner and they didnt even put a full course safety car, just virtual safety car
But we had a full course safety car and closed pit lane for a car stopping well off the racing line and near a orange barrier

Please dont say that lives of the same marshal's in an F2 race is less valuable and also the F2 driver's lives also dont matter.

This artificial changing of f1 race has been there for long long time
And it is indeed Masi's fault
Last year he let go Leclerc without any penalty, but now this year Albon got penalty for even less
What heppend to the black orange flag? is that taken out only in convenient situations?

All this indicates is F2 safety protocols are potentially more lackadaisical than F1.

It would be unwise to use that as a mechanism to suggest F1 should become less strict in this regard. Lest some forget, F2 recorded a driver death last year, quite possibly precipitated by debris on track.

Cranes and/or marshals on track should automatically trigger a safety car.

In the case of Magnussen the objective was to keep people out of the pit lane. In what way does a SC accomplish this, when 99% of the time an SC means an immediate call to the pits? VSC would have neutralized the race sufficiently, and provided less incentive for mass pit entry, and therefore may have actually been the safer option.

To clarify, my argument highlighted the fact the F2 situation should have had a safety car.

[Fulcrum]

Did u watch F2 race this weekend?
Both the races had 2 Virtual safety cars in feature race and 1 virtual safety car in sprint race when they had on the same track with same marshals and same FIA delegats
https://serving.photos.photobox.com/310 ... a35a9a.jpg
Look at that, a crane on the first corner and they didnt even put a full course safety car, just virtual safety car
But we had a full course safety car and closed pit lane for a car stopping well off the racing line and near a orange barrier

Please dont say that lives of the same marshal's in an F2 race is less valuable and also the F2 driver's lives also dont matter.

This artificial changing of f1 race has been there for long long time
And it is indeed Masi's fault
Last year he let go Leclerc without any penalty, but now this year Albon got penalty for even less
What heppend to the black orange flag? is that taken out only in convenient situations?

All this indicates is F2 safety protocols are potentially more lackadaisical than F1.

It would be unwise to use that as a mechanism to suggest F1 should become less strict in this regard. Lest some forget, F2 recorded a driver death last year, quite possibly precipitated by debris on track.

Cranes and/or marshals on track should automatically trigger a safety car.

I think the issue is more that why is a VSC deemed ok in non F1 races where it's not in F1 races? The Magnussen thing is a prime example of something VSC is almost tailor made for. That's a FAR less hazardous situation than the one in the picture yet it's full safety car? We were told VSC wouldn't happen this year because of lack of marshalls- clearly that's not true if it happens in F2. Agree that safety is paramount but why does this prove or suggest that F2 isn't properly run? It's all under the same banner and I'd expect if there were concerns that it would follow the same protocol as F1. Horrible as it was, the Hubert accident is a bit irrelevant to this discussion.

Like I said, Masi admitted he has one eye on the 'spectacle' so I can't help but think the proliferation of full SC this season is absolutely related to that in order to add the extra element of lottery and uncertainty to 'liven up' a race. Whether he's been asked to or whether it's his call is another matter, but either way it's not his job to make it a spectacle or to interfere unnecessarily in a race which may alter the result- which it absolutely does do at times.

And my argument was, the F2 situation was not acceptable and should have seen the safety car deployed.