Red Bull RB16

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
kalinka
kalinka
9
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Red Bull RB16

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:29 am
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:14 pm
Another floor comparison.

This was a pretty significant upgrade. Will have definitely helped reduce turbulence from the rear tire area, which can have negative effects on diffuser performance (as the rear tire literally shoots air sideways toward the diffuser as it deforms).

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -com-1.jpg

via @SomersF1
The tire tubulence has a dead zone right where the floor is aiming air at. By pushing airmass to the deadzone, the pressure is increased, and as air likes to go to the area of lowest pressure so it can be full of itself, it'll go to the inside of the tire because the diffuser is low pressure. The tapered front wings do the same thing, aim more air mass at the tire deadzone. The vortex tunnels of the 2014-2018 wings did this very well.

One thing I still don't understand is how brake ducts themselves give an aero advantage, or is Mercedes brake ducts more to control tire temperature? If Mercedes brake ducts are letting them get the tires in exactly the right window it would explain the gaps in qualifying vs race pace. Tires being in and out of the window is easily worth over half a second. Over a race stint tires will reach a temperature equilibrium vs qualifying where you're driving slowly on your out lap to prepare the tire.
Wouldn't those slots in the floor decrease pressure before the air hits the dead zone by spilling some of it under the floor? Also, why would be a lot of small slots a significant upgrade compared to the old version? If that's so obvious why they didn't come up with it in a first place? I'm no expert at all , just want to know how it works.

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ME4ME
173
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:15 pm
This team is the king of iterative design. Every race they reprofile so many aero surfaces. It looks like the car is the same, or reverts to older parts, but if you pay attention you see how many subtle changes they make every single race.

Sochi will be a big test to see if they're getting on top of the car, some of the updates and test parts show promising results.
To be fair half of the upgrade this year haven't worked. I wouldn't say Red Bull Honda is king of anything right now other than pit stops which they are amazing at.

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godlameroso
426
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Red Bull RB16

Post

kalinka wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:56 am
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:29 am
zibby43 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:14 pm
Another floor comparison.

This was a pretty significant upgrade. Will have definitely helped reduce turbulence from the rear tire area, which can have negative effects on diffuser performance (as the rear tire literally shoots air sideways toward the diffuser as it deforms).

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -com-1.jpg

via @SomersF1
The tire tubulence has a dead zone right where the floor is aiming air at. By pushing airmass to the deadzone, the pressure is increased, and as air likes to go to the area of lowest pressure so it can be full of itself, it'll go to the inside of the tire because the diffuser is low pressure. The tapered front wings do the same thing, aim more air mass at the tire deadzone. The vortex tunnels of the 2014-2018 wings did this very well.

One thing I still don't understand is how brake ducts themselves give an aero advantage, or is Mercedes brake ducts more to control tire temperature? If Mercedes brake ducts are letting them get the tires in exactly the right window it would explain the gaps in qualifying vs race pace. Tires being in and out of the window is easily worth over half a second. Over a race stint tires will reach a temperature equilibrium vs qualifying where you're driving slowly on your out lap to prepare the tire.
Wouldn't those slots in the floor decrease pressure before the air hits the dead zone by spilling some of it under the floor? Also, why would be a lot of small slots a significant upgrade compared to the old version? If that's so obvious why they didn't come up with it in a first place? I'm no expert at all , just want to know how it works.
The old version didn't channel as much airflow to the region of interest. This one is a more brute force approach. As the pressure under the floor increases as air goes across the slots and smacks the tire, the rest of the air traveling along the floor says 'hell to the na, I ain't going that way, I'm going towards the diffuser where the underfloor pressure is lower.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

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godlameroso
426
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Red Bull RB16

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ME4ME wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:58 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:15 pm
This team is the king of iterative design. Every race they reprofile so many aero surfaces. It looks like the car is the same, or reverts to older parts, but if you pay attention you see how many subtle changes they make every single race.

Sochi will be a big test to see if they're getting on top of the car, some of the updates and test parts show promising results.
To be fair half of the upgrade this year haven't worked. I wouldn't say Red Bull Honda is king of anything right now other than pit stops which they are amazing at.
Some did, some didn't, and not all of it was in vain. There are more wrong answers than right ones. So it's easier to get things wrong, than right, statistically speaking. The important part is they're figuring things out. Sochi will be a very important test, as Mercedes has always been very strong there. A lot of important corners are in a speed range the car has not liked all year. So if RB does well there, we'll know they're on the right track.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

nzjrs
nzjrs
87
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:21 am
Location: Austria

Re: Red Bull RB16

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:01 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:58 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:15 pm
This team is the king of iterative design. Every race they reprofile so many aero surfaces. It looks like the car is the same, or reverts to older parts, but if you pay attention you see how many subtle changes they make every single race.

Sochi will be a big test to see if they're getting on top of the car, some of the updates and test parts show promising results.
To be fair half of the upgrade this year haven't worked. I wouldn't say Red Bull Honda is king of anything right now other than pit stops which they are amazing at.
Some did, some didn't, and not all of it was in vain. There are more wrong answers than right ones. So it's easier to get things wrong, than right, statistically speaking. The important part is they're figuring things out. Sochi will be a very important test, as Mercedes has always been very strong there. A lot of important corners are in a speed range the car has not liked all year. So if RB does well there, we'll know they're on the right track.
What's your guess on how Albon might go here vs Verstappen - does Sochi have more of the types of corners that Albon struggles with more than Max (at the current state of the RB16)?

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godlameroso
426
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Red Bull RB16

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nzjrs wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:06 pm
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:01 pm
ME4ME wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:58 pm

To be fair half of the upgrade this year haven't worked. I wouldn't say Red Bull Honda is king of anything right now other than pit stops which they are amazing at.
Some did, some didn't, and not all of it was in vain. There are more wrong answers than right ones. So it's easier to get things wrong, than right, statistically speaking. The important part is they're figuring things out. Sochi will be a very important test, as Mercedes has always been very strong there. A lot of important corners are in a speed range the car has not liked all year. So if RB does well there, we'll know they're on the right track.
What's your guess on how Albon might go here vs Verstappen - does Sochi have more of the types of corners that Albon struggles with more than Max (at the current state of the RB16)?
The car itself struggles in these corners, or did, so the gap between Verstappen and Albon would be greater here. Of course the team has made some inroads to improving car behavior at that speed range so we'll see. If they can get the ultimate lap time down in the 1:31.7ish then we'll know they have improved things. That would put them at a similar gap to the last race.

How they'll fare in the race itself, hard to say, Mercedes already had astronomical pace last year around here. 38's and 37's. Easily half a second faster than the RB15 was, so I'm not expecting them to just beat Mercedes, but if the gap is similar to last round I will be very pleased. Imola and Portimao should suit the car as Mugello did.
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

kalinka
kalinka
9
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:01 pm
Location: Hungary

Re: Red Bull RB16

Post

godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:57 pm
kalinka wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:56 am
godlameroso wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:29 am


The tire tubulence has a dead zone right where the floor is aiming air at. By pushing airmass to the deadzone, the pressure is increased, and as air likes to go to the area of lowest pressure so it can be full of itself, it'll go to the inside of the tire because the diffuser is low pressure. The tapered front wings do the same thing, aim more air mass at the tire deadzone. The vortex tunnels of the 2014-2018 wings did this very well.

One thing I still don't understand is how brake ducts themselves give an aero advantage, or is Mercedes brake ducts more to control tire temperature? If Mercedes brake ducts are letting them get the tires in exactly the right window it would explain the gaps in qualifying vs race pace. Tires being in and out of the window is easily worth over half a second. Over a race stint tires will reach a temperature equilibrium vs qualifying where you're driving slowly on your out lap to prepare the tire.
Wouldn't those slots in the floor decrease pressure before the air hits the dead zone by spilling some of it under the floor? Also, why would be a lot of small slots a significant upgrade compared to the old version? If that's so obvious why they didn't come up with it in a first place? I'm no expert at all , just want to know how it works.
The old version didn't channel as much airflow to the region of interest. This one is a more brute force approach. As the pressure under the floor increases as air goes across the slots and smacks the tire, the rest of the air traveling along the floor says 'hell to the na, I ain't going that way, I'm going towards the diffuser where the underfloor pressure is lower.
This makes sense. Thanks. I've faIled to think dinamically about those slots :)

Hkbruin2
Hkbruin2
14
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:49 am

Re: Red Bull RB16

Post



Looks like Red Bull might be going with a T wing this week?? First time I’ve seen it on the RB16.

Cassius
Cassius
0
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Red Bull RB16

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Looks similar to the t-wing they had in Hungary.

ispano6
ispano6
242
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: Red Bull RB16

Post

Hkbruin2 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:56 am


Looks like Red Bull might be going with a T wing this week?? First time I’ve seen it on the RB16.
In Hungary they had a true T-wing but this one you posted is different and is split between the shark fin base.

Image

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godlameroso
426
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:27 pm
Location: Miami FL

Re: Red Bull RB16

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You can do something very interesting with the T-wing if you're very clever. Good thing Red Bull is very clever indeed. 8)
The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. Mr.Lee

Hkbruin2
Hkbruin2
14
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:49 am

Re: Red Bull RB16

Post

ispano6 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:32 am
Hkbruin2 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:56 am


Looks like Red Bull might be going with a T wing this week?? First time I’ve seen it on the RB16.
In Hungary they had a true T-wing but this one you posted is different and is split between the shark fin base.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdCsQR2WkAA ... ame=medium
Keen observation!

Sneer
Sneer
2
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:28 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16

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Seems like they're teasing a bigger upgrade? Engine cover seems narrower beneath the shark fin (including t-wing). Also suspension 'entry-point' seems different - narrower and different location to the H (Honda).

Image
Image

ispano6
ispano6
242
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:56 pm
Location: my playseat

Re: Red Bull RB16

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Max and Pierre using new gearboxes.
Image

tangodjango
tangodjango
42
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:38 pm

Re: Red Bull RB16

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https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-te ... e/4887745/

Red Bull: Scoop discovered under the front wing

Adrian Newey never ceases to amaze: on the RB16 a new solution was photographed at the Nurburgring under the side bulkhead of the front wing. The Red Bull introduced a blower between the band and the external sidewalk to energize the flow that must move the air outside the front wheel. Will this also be a stunt that will make school?
Red Bull has not given up the idea of breaking eggs in the basket of Mercedes. Max Verstappen was the only driver to break the hegemony of the black arrows in the 2020 season, but the Dutchman did not have the single-seater to counter the pace in the world championship of Lewis Hamilton and Valtteri Bottas.

Both at Monza and Mugello he was forced to retire due to problems with the Honda engine, but the Milton Keynes team never stopped the development of the RB16. On Adrian Newey's single-seater for the Eifel GP at the Nurburgring we discovered a new modification in the front wing, which could open a new line of aerodynamic research.

In the photo that we propose you can see the big blowing that you can see under the side bulkhead of the front wing. We are talking about a very sensitive area of the machine. So far we have noticed some sidewalks outside the strip of various shapes and designs to activate vortices able to reduce the turbulences generated by the front tire in contact with the asphalt.

The Red Bull, on the other hand, takes a step forward because it has designed a slot that sucks the flow under the bulkhead and makes it vent in the upper part to direct a more energized air flow towards the trailing edge of the curved band, in order to direct its course beyond the front wheel.

It will be interesting to understand if this solution will make school in the paddock: there are those who are keeping it under observation for a while. The image shows us some flaws of the realization, a sign that this is not a stunt for the German race, but a development that has already been brought to the track.

Image
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