2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:35 pm
wowgr8 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:30 pm
To me this is all about power. Red Bull are taking a stand and trying to pressure the FIA in case anything else happens in the future. I'm sure they knew nothing would come of the appeal but I doubt that was their goal, it seems to be about defacing Mercedes image more than anything, and more power to Red Bull for that. Mercedes are a political juggernaut and this is a different team taking a stand against that
Speaking out against a teams influence is one thing (but remember that both Liberty and the FIA is loaded with ex-Ferrari management, not Mercedes), trying to discredit a fellow competitor is something completely else (what it looks like they are doing according to the last paragraph of the verdict and Mercedes reaction).
Perhaps Toto shouldn't outwardly cozy up to Masi with private emails and phone calls or watch soccer matches with Domenicali, I don't think Red Bull personnel do that do they?

dans79
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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ispano6 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:28 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:35 pm
wowgr8 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:30 pm
To me this is all about power. Red Bull are taking a stand and trying to pressure the FIA in case anything else happens in the future. I'm sure they knew nothing would come of the appeal but I doubt that was their goal, it seems to be about defacing Mercedes image more than anything, and more power to Red Bull for that. Mercedes are a political juggernaut and this is a different team taking a stand against that
Speaking out against a teams influence is one thing (but remember that both Liberty and the FIA is loaded with ex-Ferrari management, not Mercedes), trying to discredit a fellow competitor is something completely else (what it looks like they are doing according to the last paragraph of the verdict and Mercedes reaction).
Perhaps Toto shouldn't outwardly cozy up to Masi with private emails and phone calls or watch soccer matches with Domenicali, I don't think Red Bull personnel do that do they?
I don't see why any of that matters it's not illegal or against the rules!
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yener
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:59 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:28 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:35 pm


Speaking out against a teams influence is one thing (but remember that both Liberty and the FIA is loaded with ex-Ferrari management, not Mercedes), trying to discredit a fellow competitor is something completely else (what it looks like they are doing according to the last paragraph of the verdict and Mercedes reaction).
Perhaps Toto shouldn't outwardly cozy up to Masi with private emails and phone calls or watch soccer matches with Domenicali, I don't think Red Bull personnel do that do they?
I don't see why any of that matters it's not illegal or against the rules!
Its not illegal or against the rules, but its not ethical.
"Life is about passions - Thank you for sharing mine" MSC

Jolle
Jolle
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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yener wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:07 am
dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:59 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:28 pm

Perhaps Toto shouldn't outwardly cozy up to Masi with private emails and phone calls or watch soccer matches with Domenicali, I don't think Red Bull personnel do that do they?
I don't see why any of that matters it's not illegal or against the rules!
Its not illegal or against the rules, but its not ethical.
Newey is even on some FIA boards. It’s a big money making company with professionals that work from time till time with each other as colleagues. As for “follow the money”, the big sponsors invest left and right in each other’s business model. Redbull pays a huge check for some extra exposure, as does Mercedes.

To claim that one team is controlling the fia/fom is absurd. I used the ex Ferrari personnel as an example how strange such an accusation is.

Besides that, if RedBull would feel that they don’t have an equal seat at the table, why would they invest at least half a billion a year in F1?

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:20 pm
El Scorchio wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:19 pm
Sieper wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:58 pm
You know what, we can talk long about it or short (more then long enough). I had several sleepless nights over this, that is how upsetting it was to me...
If that's genuinely true, then I'd seriously recommend a little step back or a breather. It's ONLY sport and entertainment. It shouldn't be giving anyone sleepless nights.
I second this!
As a healthcare professional I'll go further and urge you to speak to a professional about that as it points to something else underlying that is being triggered by your emotional investment in a hobby.
Lando Norris: "Such a great driver"
Daniel Ricciardo: "Darren" 🤣

LaplacesDemon
LaplacesDemon
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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I was considering that perhaps RBR are going to these lengths to somehow unsettle Merc and force them to spend resources towards mounting a defence.

It now appears that RB are the ones who have put significant effort behind their appeal only for it to be categorically dismissed.

I'm quite disappointed as I was expecting most of the appeal discussions to revolve around the more technical aspects of the wheel to wheel battle, some of which I was hoping would transpire into the FIA statement.
Instead it would appear that the focus was on some made up data and some yet to be disclosed mud slinging tripe.

As a side note, I think it is hilarious how fans of RB and Merc keep attacking Toto and Christian respectively without realizing that the two are actually very much alike.

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adrianjordan
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Tizz wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:32 pm
Jolle wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:35 pm
wowgr8 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:30 pm
To me this is all about power. Red Bull are taking a stand and trying to pressure the FIA in case anything else happens in the future. I'm sure they knew nothing would come of the appeal but I doubt that was their goal, it seems to be about defacing Mercedes image more than anything, and more power to Red Bull for that. Mercedes are a political juggernaut and this is a different team taking a stand against that
Speaking out against a teams influence is one thing (but remember that both Liberty and the FIA is loaded with ex-Ferrari management, not Mercedes), trying to discredit a fellow competitor is something completely else (what it looks like they are doing according to the last paragraph of the verdict and Mercedes reaction).
And what do you think Mercedes has been doing since Silverstone ?
Getting on with prep for the rest of this season and 2022.
Lando Norris: "Such a great driver"
Daniel Ricciardo: "Darren" 🤣

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adrianjordan
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Location: West Yorkshire, England

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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LaplacesDemon wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:19 am
I was considering that perhaps RBR are going to these lengths to somehow unsettle Merc and force them to spend resources towards mounting a defence.

It now appears that RB are the ones who have put significant effort behind their appeal only for it to be categorically dismissed.

I'm quite disappointed as I was expecting most of the appeal discussions to revolve around the more technical aspects of the wheel to wheel battle, some of which I was hoping would transpire into the FIA statement.
Instead it would appear that the focus was on some made up data and some yet to be disclosed mud slinging tripe.

As a side note, I think it is hilarious how fans of RB and Merc keep attacking Toto and Christian respectively without realizing that the two are actually very much alike.
The big difference is in delivery. Toto remains outwardly calm and collected, Christian comes across as on edge and moaning.
Lando Norris: "Such a great driver"
Daniel Ricciardo: "Darren" 🤣

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ringo
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Sieper wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:11 pm
And Verstappen won’t get thrown of his game with the shenanigans that have now resorted to again by Lewis. The only danger is Lewis doing it again. You can’t really guard yourself from someone tapping you out of a corner. Therefor I hope the punishment will get revised. This option needs to be off the table.
He just needs to drive faster then and not fall for dummies.
That's exactly why i think this whole thing escalated. Hamilton selling him a dummy to the left side was like a top footballer getting a nutmeg. I dont think they will touch like this again. Max would have to be flustered again and driving desperately to hold lewis behind. Once he calms down and drive to the pace of the car Lewis cannot come close to bother bim and get into his head.
For Sure!!

maxxer
maxxer
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Jolle wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:14 am
yener wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:07 am
dans79 wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:59 pm


I don't see why any of that matters it's not illegal or against the rules!
Its not illegal or against the rules, but its not ethical.
Newey is even on some FIA boards. It’s a big money making company with professionals that work from time till time with each other as colleagues. As for “follow the money”, the big sponsors invest left and right in each other’s business model. Redbull pays a huge check for some extra exposure, as does Mercedes.

To claim that one team is controlling the fia/fom is absurd. I used the ex Ferrari personnel as an example how strange such an accusation is.

Besides that, if RedBull would feel that they don’t have an equal seat at the table, why would they invest at least half a billion a year in F1?
They (FIA) will need the expertise from various people working at the teams to come up with designs like for 2022 or the new engine rules, is my guess

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Chuckjr
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.

dans79
dans79
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Location: USA

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 am
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.
Planting seeds doesn't do you any good, if at the same time you insult or annoy the very people you expect to help you out in the future.
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Roostfactor
Roostfactor
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Location: Texas

Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 am
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.
Well said.

zibby43
zibby43
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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dans79 wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 am
Chuckjr wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:05 am
Never let a crisis go to waste.

Red Bull was planting seeds at that hearing. They never expected to win anything. Come on. This is chess. They know this isn’t the last time these two boys are going to mingle on track. Red Bull took the opportunity to make some suspicions clear. If I understand correctly, that letter they wrote they knew would not be seen outside the case so they took advantage of the crisis knowing it would all stay private. Some would call it shrewd, others self-indulgent and childish. Either way, public or not, do you think RB care? They are playing out their strategy.

I’d reckon if the roles were reversed many opinions would change regarding the letter based on team/driver preference. But whatever the case, I don’t see it as a mistake at all but simply their way of applying more pressure to an already high pressure situation. Not letting the crisis go away lightly is the point.

We all have opinions as to how certain drivers respond to high pressure and this is simply Red Bull team’s way of continuing to apply pressure as well as officially plant some theoretical seeds should/when this happens again.

All is fair in love and war ladies and gents. Take advantage of every opportunity. Appearances don’t win races, speed and cunning does. This has nothing to do with studious, gentlemanly conduct and everything to do with all out war. Red Bull is making sure everyone knows the gloves are off and they are expecting and ready for any position that should surface. They could care less what people think of their private legal claims and positioning. F1 team principals and high dollar lawyers are not dumb. They know exactly what they are doing and it’s why they have been so successful.
Planting seeds doesn't do you any good, if at the same time you insult or annoy the very people you expect to help you out in the future.
I was going to say, my view is that the exact opposite of what Chuckjr said has happened. And it’s not just my view.

The Race had an entire podcast dedicated to the fact that RBR went from a position of an aggrieved party with some sympathy, to looking like a villain in this matter. Not only with their public rhetoric, but the language used in their private submissions, which was directed at both Hamilton and the stewards.

They’ve clearly angered the stewards involved in the proceeding, who actually took time to rebuke RB publicly in the closing of the document.

They’ve basically given Mercedes the moral high ground now. What a wild 2 weeks.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

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Just_a_fan wrote:
Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:00 pm
I hope Perez isn't expecting to get too many more points. I think RBR are going to throw him under the bus to try to derail Hamilton, no matter what the cost to the team's points haul.
Why waste time with the driver's when they have the best car as well, may as well just win it all.
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