Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Rikhart]

So if that is indeed a tube, channeling air, the tunnel underneath is merely a side-product, and not the main thing... Interesting.

Woa, just thought of another thing. Its a tube. Its directly on the path of the exhaust. BAM, super heated air channel to the diffuser!

Any thoughts on this? Legality?

[beelsebob]

He´s not talking about the tunnel, he´s talking about the bridge possibly being a tube channeling air, look at my "diagram" above.

o.O since when is a "tube channeling air" not a "tunnel"

He's saying that the bridge over the "tunnel" is a duct ducting air of some sort to the floor to then be blown out. Not talking about the visible tunnel.

Sure – and we've established that it can't be – 1) because we can see inside the tunnel in some shots and see that there's no entrance into the floor; 2) because the floor doesn't get any thicker, which it would need to to have a channel inside it; 3) because we can see there's no exit for it to come out of, because the extra row across the top is still the same little gurney as last year, as can be seen in the photos.

I don't get why people are complicating this so much... The air around and over the side pods does the exact same thing as it did on the RB7, the exhaust tries to emulate what the RB7 as much as is possible these days by jumping it over the top of the flow around the side pods... It's exactly what McLaren are doing, and it's exactly what Red Bull are doing.

[Twaddle]

So if that is indeed a tube, channeling air, the tunnel underneath is merely a side-product, and not the main thing... Interesting.

Woa, just thought of another thing. Its a tube. Its directly on the path of the exhaust. BAM, super heated air channel to the diffuser!

Any thoughts on this? Legality?

Other people are more familiar with the regulations, but I don't see any problem there. However, it seems like a draggy and inefficient solution; more importantly I don't see any evidence of it existing at the rear of the car.

[beelsebob]

So if that is indeed a tube, channeling air, the tunnel underneath is merely a side-product, and not the main thing... Interesting.

Woa, just thought of another thing. Its a tube. Its directly on the path of the exhaust. BAM, super heated air channel to the diffuser!

Any thoughts on this? Legality?

Other people are more familiar with the regulations, but I don't see any problem there. However, it seems like a draggy and inefficient solution; more importantly I don't see any evidence of it existing at the rear of the car.

More, as discussed in the McLaren thread, solutions that use the exhausts to heat the air around them in the body work would need to be very finely tuned to not cause a pressure backup in the radiators and destroy any chance of cooling the car.

[Shakeman]

The air around and over the side pods does the exact same thing as it did on the RB7, the exhaust tries to emulate what the RB7 as much as is possible these days by jumping it over the top of the flow around the side pods... It's exactly what McLaren are doing, and it's exactly what Red Bull are doing.

Exactly, that's why it would be nice for someone techie to compare the McLaren approach to the RB "duct" "tunnel" which appears to put body work in the way of the flow of air.

Anyone want to comment?

[i70q7m7ghw]

What bothers me with this solution, is that the pullrod is not quite at a good place for that blue stream. Actually wouldn't it work better with a pushrod this year ? For me that pullrod just doesn't fall into the puzzle. Just asking.

My feeling is that this new exhaust layout is a response to what the other teams have been doing, and was not part of the inital design of the car, hence the pull-rod not being in the ideal location. Overall though, I don't think it will cause and massive issues, but I would imagine ideally they would rather not have it in that position.

Honestly, I don't get why people are getting hot and bothered about the pull rod being there... It was there last year, they were channelling air around the side pods of the car in the exact same way last year... Why on earth would it suddenly become a problem now?

Because it's right in the path of the ducting/tunnel, as I said it's probably no big deal, I think it's you that is getting hot under the collar...

[Rikhart]

So if that is indeed a tube, channeling air, the tunnel underneath is merely a side-product, and not the main thing... Interesting.

Woa, just thought of another thing. Its a tube. Its directly on the path of the exhaust. BAM, super heated air channel to the diffuser!

Any thoughts on this? Legality?

Other people are more familiar with the regulations, but I don't see any problem there. However, it seems like a draggy and inefficient solution; more importantly I don't see any evidence of it existing at the rear of the car.

Well, regarding drag and efficiency, the structure is already there anyway. Which again points to Holm´s theory being correct, it could be slimer if it didnt contain a duct?

[Rikhart]

More, as discussed in the McLaren thread, solutions that use the exhausts to heat the air around them in the body work would need to be very finely tuned to not cause a pressure backup in the radiators and destroy any chance of cooling the car.

Aha, very interesting and I didnt follow that discussion. However, what if it had absolutely nothing to do with radiators? What if it´s a separate channel all together?

[CHT]

Sure – and we've established that it can't be – 1) because we can see inside the tunnel in some shots and see that there's no entrance into the floor; 2) because the floor doesn't get any thicker, which it would need to to have a channel inside it; 3) because we can see there's no exit for it to come out of, because the extra row across the top is still the same little gurney as last year, as can be seen in the photos.

I don't get why people are complicating this so much... The air around and over the side pods does the exact same thing as it did on the RB7, the exhaust tries to emulate what the RB7 as much as is possible these days by jumping it over the top of the flow around the side pods... It's exactly what McLaren are doing, and it's exactly what Red Bull are doing.

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. What i am trying to say is they are channeling air from within the side pod into the tube that goes over the tunnel. And the air is going into the floor and exit near the rear diffuser through a hole that is visible from the rear end shot I posted.

[Holm86]

Sure – and we've established that it can't be – 1) because we can see inside the tunnel in some shots and see that there's no entrance into the floor; 2) because the floor doesn't get any thicker, which it would need to to have a channel inside it; 3) because we can see there's no exit for it to come out of, because the extra row across the top is still the same little gurney as last year, as can be seen in the photos.

I don't get why people are complicating this so much... The air around and over the side pods does the exact same thing as it did on the RB7, the exhaust tries to emulate what the RB7 as much as is possible these days by jumping it over the top of the flow around the side pods... It's exactly what McLaren are doing, and it's exactly what Red Bull are doing.

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. What i am trying to say is they are channeling air from within the side pod into the tube that goes over the tunnel. And the air is going into the floor and exit near the rear diffuser through a hole that is visible from the rear end shot I posted.

That could be an option as well yes.
I just saw the picture and in my eyes it defenetly looks like they are channeling some air into the floor from the sidepod. I just remembered talk about a double layer diffuser on the red bull a while back and thought that could be what they are feeding with this air.

To me it just looks like there is a tunnel connecting the rear of the sidepod and the floor.

[Twaddle]

Other people are more familiar with the regulations, but I don't see any problem there. However, it seems like a draggy and inefficient solution; more importantly I don't see any evidence of it existing at the rear of the car.

Well, regarding drag and efficiency, the structure is already there anyway. Which again points to Holm´s theory being correct, it could be slimer if it didnt contain a duct?

I was referring to drag as a result of internal airflows, not the exterior form which, as you say, is there either way.

[beelsebob]

Sure – and we've established that it can't be – 1) because we can see inside the tunnel in some shots and see that there's no entrance into the floor; 2) because the floor doesn't get any thicker, which it would need to to have a channel inside it; 3) because we can see there's no exit for it to come out of, because the extra row across the top is still the same little gurney as last year, as can be seen in the photos.

I don't get why people are complicating this so much... The air around and over the side pods does the exact same thing as it did on the RB7, the exhaust tries to emulate what the RB7 as much as is possible these days by jumping it over the top of the flow around the side pods... It's exactly what McLaren are doing, and it's exactly what Red Bull are doing.

I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing here. What i am trying to say is they are channeling air from within the side pod into the tube that goes over the tunnel. And the air is going into the floor and exit near the rear diffuser through a hole that is visible from the rear end shot I posted.

We are talking about the same thing, and all of 1, 2 and 3 apply to why it's not going on.

[Coefficient]

Is that extension of the sidepod not just an exit ramp for the exhaust gases therefore employing the corriander effect?

Seriously, is the consensus that it's a tube blowing sidepod air under the floor? I can't see the point in it being there unless they were trying to use it in this way because it causes a bit of a blockage to the flow around the pods to my eye.

If it works it works and fair enough etc but it looks crap! The Mclaren is a far more elegant looking car.

[GrizzleBoy]

Is that extension of the sidepod not just an exit ramp for the exhaust gases therefore employing the corriander effect?

Seriously, is the consensus that it's a tube blowing sidepod air under the floor? I can't see the point in it being there unless they were trying to use it in this way because it causes a bit of a blockage to the flow around the pods to my eye.

If it works it works and fair enough etc but it looks crap! The Mclaren is a far more elegant looking car.

What's the corriander effect?

Imo, the red bull looks much more elegant/refined at the back from a purely aesthetic view, but the McLaren wins hands down from the sidepods forward.

[Ferraripilot]

I understand the sidepod extension to the floor and its benefit in working according to the Coanda affect, but I'm confused by this approach compared to say Mercedes or even Mclaren. The Merc approach does not attempt to blow the diffuser but rather they have substantial undercuts in the sidepods where Red Bull have certainly lost much of that undercut with their new system. It's a gamble between exhaust flow potential and the loss of the undercut which yielded a measureable amount of: I'll call it 'other', flow. Also, the flow from around the sidepods is not aiding their intended goal of sealing the diffuser as this tangential flow is certainly powerful enough to divert some of that flow to its intended rear and center intended pathway. I believe Mclaren's arrangement is a compromise between what Red Bull are doing and Mercedes although Mclaren certainly benefit more from their undercut sidepods under their exhaust than Red Bull. The Red Bull solution strikes me as uncompromising and a gamble considering the amount of flow they are losing around the sidepods. You can see with the slots under the exhaust path that they were trying to make up for that lost flow but it's still no compromise compared to say what Mclaren have going. Too radical this year for Red Bull?