Red Bull RB8 Renault

[PhantomPoster]

Is is fair to say RBR seem to be mirroring some of the Sauber developments (floor gap, exhaust)? Seems the wrong way round?

[hardingfv32]

1) But that is the essence of the lap. Everyone can drive in a straight line or through a corner with the foot buried down, but the crucial moments are the corners you have to brake/change speed for.

2) How do you know it's like that? Personal experience? ....

1) We are talking about the benefit of the exhaust flow, not 'essence' of the lap.

2) The exhaust flow 'map' is consistent over a lap and thus the benefit from that flow is consistent and predictable in relation to that 'map'. You do not require personal experience to come to this conclusion.

Brian

[raymondu999]

1) As far as the exhaust layout goes, any imbalance that it causes will only take place while off throttle AND IN A TURN. This is not very much of the average F1 lap time. I am going to venture a number of less than 10% of the lap. It is rare that the majority of a turn is taken at part throttle.

Disagree. It depends how the car is set up. The car might have been set up for an off-throttle balance, and have on-throttle understeer. Or it might have an on-throttle balance, and off-throttle oversteer.

[eurocentric]

1) But that is the essence of the lap. Everyone can drive in a straight line or through a corner with the foot buried down, but the crucial moments are the corners you have to brake/change speed for.

2) How do you know it's like that? Personal experience? ....

1) We are talking about the benefit of the exhaust flow, not 'essence' of the lap.

2) The exhaust flow 'map' is consistent over a lap and thus the benefit from that flow is consistent and predictable in relation to that 'map'. You do not require personal experience to come to this conclusion.

Brian

The exhaust flow map might be consistant but track conditions/temp/grip/variations in turn in point/wind across the track etc etc etc all change that's why if the car is not really planted the car with behave differently and it's balance will change if the car attitude is upset due to one or more of those factors.

I have experienced track driving with semi slicks and had problems when it started to rain very lightly and I lost the temp in them the balance went to the rear and the front would not turn in as sharp or sometimes not at all, that personal experience tells me that they are suffering from the same sort of problems with the car not remaining balanced.

[hardingfv32]

It depends how the car is set up. The car might have been set up for an off-throttle balance, and have on-throttle understeer. Or it might have an on-throttle balance, and off-throttle oversteer.

Well 'setup' might be a better term to use, as 'balance' is different for each driver.

My point would be that the 'setup', off-throttle 'neutral', and have on-throttle understeer, etc., is of a know, consistent and reliable nature in relation to the exhaust map.

I am assuming that they are making a logical compromise and allocating the less than ideal 'setup' for those limited times that they are off-throttle and in a turn.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

The exhaust flow map might be consistant but track conditions/temp/grip/variations in turn in point/wind across the track etc.....

While everything you say is true, it has no relevance to this discussion of exhaust system layouts.

You are introducing variables not related to the exhaust 'map' and the point I am trying to
reinforce.

Brian

[eurocentric]

2) THERE IS NOTHING UNPREDICTABLE ABOUT THIS SETUP. The driver knows when he is off the throttle and he knows exactly how the car's balance will change.

Brian

That is what you said, I am saying that yes the map is predictable but everything else isn't so if anything else changes the cars balance can change and will. So the driver will not know how the cars balance will change.

[raymondu999]

To be fair - that affects any and all f1 cars, not just the throttle sensitive ones. I think that's what Brian meant.

[hardingfv32]

Yes, things can change but at least the driver can depend on his trusty exhaust flow 'map'. Of coarse I am assuming a properly running engine and functioning exhaust system.

Brian

[Crucial_Xtreme]

[browney]

It seems like Red Bull have been eventually caught out by not putting any priority on top speed for several years.

Is this due to rumored compromises with KERS or are they having to run a lot of wing because they can't find an effective exhaust system?

[Lycoming]

tough to say, though having poor top speed is not that meaningful; Vettel was slowest through the traps in monza last year, but that didn't stop him from taking pole and the win.

[motobaleno]

after the race do you think it is confirmed the superiority of B-spec exhaust layout?

[GrizzleBoy]

tough to say, though having poor top speed is not that meaningful; Vettel was slowest through the traps in monza last year, but that didn't stop him from taking pole and the win.

I think the point he was trying to make was that the banning of the blown diffusers also makes them slower through the corners too.

Therefore making their lack of straight line speed much more crucial than before.

[techF1LES]

Great photo Crucial, just did some little adjustments...