Red Bull RB8 Renault

[Hail22]

http://www.yallaf1.com/2012/06/09/fia-o ... ing-ducts/

http://www.f1reader.com/news/fia-tells- ... sign-49765

http://www.totalf1.com/details/view/419 ... ng_design/

Its legitimate and the FIA have made their ruling.

Glad to know that the FIA is awake, however it would be nice to get a drawing to explain how it was an aerodynamic benefit.

[techF1LES]

@Hail22: What about these?

[Hail22]

You sir are brilliant thank you for posting it!

Will Red bull have enough time to make the appropriate changes the the duct? there is no way they can tape it as the heat generated inside the disc/drum would melt it/cause safety issues.

[techF1LES]

You sir are brilliant thank you for posting it!

Will Red bull have enough time to make the appropriate changes the the duct? there is no way they can tape it as the heat generated inside the disc/drum would melt it/cause safety issues.

I can't see any sign of illegality on these brake ducts, but I think the problem is the way how wheel hub is ducted and vented...

11.4 Air ducts :
Air ducts around the front and rear brakes will be considered part of the braking system and
shall not protrude beyond :
‐ A plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm above the horizontal
centre line of the wheel.
‐ A plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm below the horizontal
centre line of the wheel.
‐ A vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by
120mm toward the car centre line.
Furthermore :
‐ When viewed from the side the ducts must not protrude forwards beyond a radius of
330mm from the centre of the wheel or backwards beyond a radius of 180mm from the
centre of the wheel.
‐ The ducts may not rotate with the wheels nor may they, or any of their mountings,
protrude axially beyond the outer face of the wheel fastener.
‐ No part of the car, other than those specifically defined in Articles 12.8.1 and 12.8.2,
may obscure any part of the wheel when viewed from the outside of the car towards the
car centre line along the axis of the wheel.

Maybe FIA consider wheel hub as part of brake ducts. And wheel hub is obviously located far outboard of "a vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by 120mm toward the car centre line."

[Huntresa]

You sir are brilliant thank you for posting it!

Will Red bull have enough time to make the appropriate changes the the duct? there is no way they can tape it as the heat generated inside the disc/drum would melt it/cause safety issues.

I can't see any sign of illegality on these brake ducts, but I think the problem is the way how wheel hub is ducted and vented...

11.4 Air ducts :
Air ducts around the front and rear brakes will be considered part of the braking system and
shall not protrude beyond :
‐ A plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm above the horizontal
centre line of the wheel.
‐ A plane parallel to the ground situated at a distance of 160mm below the horizontal
centre line of the wheel.
‐ A vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by
120mm toward the car centre line.
Furthermore :
‐ When viewed from the side the ducts must not protrude forwards beyond a radius of
330mm from the centre of the wheel or backwards beyond a radius of 180mm from the
centre of the wheel.
‐ The ducts may not rotate with the wheels nor may they, or any of their mountings,
protrude axially beyond the outer face of the wheel fastener.
‐ No part of the car, other than those specifically defined in Articles 12.8.1 and 12.8.2,
may obscure any part of the wheel when viewed from the outside of the car towards the
car centre line along the axis of the wheel.

Maybe FIA consider wheel hub as part of brake ducts. And wheel hub is obviously located far outboard of "a vertical plane parallel to the inner face of the wheel rim and displaced from it by 120mm toward the car centre line."

They didnt say it was illegal in design as of length or height etc, its just that the FIA thinks they were using to gain aero beenfits or rather more aero benefits then the FIA wants them to. Its like the exhaust, the FIA doesnt want stuff that isnt aero parts to produce aero effects, we know they looked at the exhausts etc at the start even if they were in the legal area, so its just like that.

[marcush.]

What image is the camera capturing? For the team's use only?

Brian

According to Sky sports it is taking a temperature profile of the tyres (on vettel's car) on the left hand side (looking at the car from the front)

I have some insight into miniature camera availability for thermal imaging and this is not definetively .
BUT there are ! and really small ones .
You always face the problem with emissivity on metalic surfaces ,but a tyre should not be a big problem....but then the teams are or should be more interested in core temps as well ..? I for once would try and fit temp sensors inside the wheel as well ..even though this is surely not allowed outside FP.

[Richard]

As MX said - Development facts or bust.

Discussions about illegality moved to team thread.... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12213&view=unread#unread

[hardingfv32]

....but then the teams are or should be more interested in core temps as well ..?

Maybe not, the surface temp is what changes rapidly during the turn. The core would be slow to change.

Brian

[hardingfv32]

It would SEEM completely legitimate to have a duct that cools the wheel bearings. This would not be a brake duct. Cooling the wheel bearings would be a valid 'primary' use for such flow. To say aero is the 'primary' use seems like a stretch. Do we have anything to demonstrate how it would be an aero benefit.

We are missing some detail in this story.

Brian

[westech]

It would SEEM completely legitimate to have a duct that cools the wheel bearings. This would not be a brake duct. Cooling the wheel bearings would be a valid 'primary' use for such flow. To say aero is the 'primary' use seems like a stretch. Do we have anything to demonstrate how it would be an aero benefit.

We are missing some detail in this story.

Brian

This design proves to be more than a cooling brake duct, What RB is doing is channeling air to the outside of the wheel that energises the flow over the front wing.

[hardingfv32]

...channeling air to the outside of the wheel that energises the flow over the front wing.

I read that too, but it makes no since to me. The wheel is behind the wing. Also, what type of 'energy" is available to a flow routed through the the center of the hub? The reason given to date does not seem reasonable.

Brian

[beelsebob]

...channeling air to the outside of the wheel that energises the flow over the front wing.

I read that too, but it makes no since to me. The wheel is behind the wing. Also, what type of 'energy" is available to a flow routed through the the center of the hub? The reason given to date does not seem reasonable.

Brian

A lot of generating fast air flow over a wing is to do with creating low pressure zones behind them.

[aral]

...channeling air to the outside of the wheel that energises the flow over the front wing.

I read that too, but it makes no since to me. The wheel is behind the wing. Also, what type of 'energy" is available to a flow routed through the the center of the hub? The reason given to date does not seem reasonable.

Brian

A lot of generating fast air flow over a wing is to do with creating low pressure zones behind them.

Possibly what is meant, is that the air being pushed aside by the front wing endplates, tends to come back in again as it nears the rear wheels. Blowing air through the wheel, pushes it out again. But the reaoning is weird. where do the powers that be, expect the normal brake cooling air to go? Even without the RBR solution, the cooling air is always being passed through the wheel. It is just that RBR are concentrating it to cool the bearings.

[bonjon1979]

Seems strange to suggest that there's nowhere else for the air to go after blowing through the brake ducts as none of the other cars have holes where Red Bull do. It's clearly to have an aerodynamic effect so it's quite right they've been told to block them up. It's a clever interpretation though and you can't blame them for going for it. I'm sure that other teams are feeding air out to have the same effect but perhaps it's not so obvious.

[aral]

Seems strange to suggest that there's nowhere else for the air to go after blowing through the brake ducts as none of the other cars have holes where Red Bull do. It's clearly to have an aerodynamic effect so it's quite right they've been told to block them up. It's a clever interpretation though and you can't blame them for going for it. I'm sure that other teams are feeding air out to have the same effect but perhaps it's not so obvious.

Watch ANY F1 car under braking, the carbon dust is clearly visible being ejected sideways from the wheels. So to say that there is nowhere for the air to go, and that no other cars have holes, is not true. In case you had not noticed, ALL wheels have holes in them, otherwise they would be disc wheels!