2021 São Paulo Grand Prix - Interlagos, Nov 12-14

[JordanMugen]

It's like Mercedes saying, FIA are dumb idiots who can't think through what we are saying. It's actually, disrespecting the collective wisdom of FIA, more specifically of someone lik Jo Bauer, who has seen these stunts for ages now. I would be shocked if FIA buys that. The more apt decision would be to disqualify Lewis and reprimand Max, as there is no precedent of a penalty for a driver in such situation, despite Vettel having done that multiple times, without any particular issue. Anything else would firm the suggested reputation of FIA as a bunch driven by Mercedes.

Ture, but why is there still no announcement from the FIA?

Red Bull making a spectacle of the wing gap calibration for the cameras by the way.

[JordanMugen]

And all this probably because of a careless mechanic that made a little mistake...

potentially even caused by equipment and parts being delayed!

That's a slam-dunk penalty then isn't it? It doesn't matter that it is a setup mistake.

"Oops I forgot to fit the last 100 grams of ballast, oh well the car was underweight but it was an honest mistake!"

[kenshi_blind]

So many conspiracy theories in here...

[AeroDynamic]

They just did a comparison between the 44 MCS and the 77MCS there was very little in it, what was, you could argue is engine – it doesn't appear like there was a noticeable advantage. I suppose they would use that to argue it was complying until the magic touch lol

[Manoah2u]

No human on earth would be able to do that like that, with one hand, not even a gorilla or any known mammal. So you're claiming that Verstappen is a supernatural being? Is that your evidence to doubt?

Depends what the geometry of the part is, what material it's made from, and how you manipulate it.

For example, take a long, less than 1mm diameter CF, aluminum, or metal rod, and under pure tension you aren't going to break it, even if you hang from it. Apply a bending force though and you will distort or break it.

To permanently bend a carbon fiber structure like the DRS, you would need several tons of force. Verstappen is 80kg, and he touched it with one hand.

Carbon fibers are ten times stronger than steel and eight times that of aluminum.

Carbon fiber is very strong when stretched or bent, but weak when compressed or exposed to high shock (e.g. a carbon fiber bar is extremely difficult to bend, but will crack easily if hit with a hammer).

again that does not matter at all.
max touched the wing, it's contaminated.

merc can easily defend themselves: all the wings the FIA tested were perfect, except for that of #44.
NO other wing has been touched by Max, #44 has.

as rediculous as theoretically it may be that max 'damaged' or 'altered' or 'tampered' with #44 wing,
it is an undeniable fact. also, never at any point has this issue existed, only now after #33 touching the wing.
and end-to-all: driver #33 touching the wing of #44 has contaminated that specific part.

there's also the possibility that damage occured or malfuctioned at some point during Q3. If Mercedes can show telemetry of that, then perhaps at worst case, lewis' qually laptime after that moment will be removed.

Lewis' last lap was ever so slightly faster than his previous lap. If that is the culprit lap, he still has pole position based upon the lap before when it still worked fine.

[ringo]

Max messed up. It's not a matter of if he can damage the wing with a few touches.
It's a matter of sabotage is possible.
The wing is carbon but the hinges dont have to be. Also we do not know what he could have done, maybe move the lower wing down on its fixings. The point is as stated before there was tampering by an unauthorized party and so the case is spoiled. Max's own inexperience costinf his team.
Vettel never touches in parc ferme. He looks. When he does touch it's they tyre and outside of parc ferme.
I think this lets mercedes off the hook and max willl get a reprimand.
It's just not right for him to be touching the car especially the part in question. It can be construed that he was instructed by his team to sabotage the wing.
And i do believe it's possible for him to compromise the wing by squeezing parts of it. A mm is such a small distance.
If he squeezes it at a point it was not designed to be loaded it can be compromised.
A wing sees a uniformly distributed load. A squeeze is a point load. We do not know her mercedes designed their wings. So Max unfortunately can be said to be the cause of the failure even though it's unlikely. The thing is it is possible.

[dans79]

And all this probably because of a careless mechanic that made a little mistake...

potentially even caused by equipment and parts being delayed!

That's a slam-dunk penalty then isn't it? It doesn't matter that it is a setup mistake.

depends if it can be seen as damage or not.


For example, a mechanic didn't apply the proper torque to a screw, but having been subjected to load in a direction its not indented to experience caused it to come loose, and thus allow a bigger gap.


It's a chicken and egg, tree in the woods falling with no one around type of situation!

[Manoah2u]

What this might come down to: Can The FIA prove when the wing stopped passing the regulation? did begin to break the regulation during qualifying or after max touched it? How can you know for a fact? how do you prove it?

you can't, AND Mercedes does not NEED to because after all, the part in question has come under scrutiny AFTER getting a rule infringement made by another driver.

there is no legal base for anything in regards to mercedes.
quite frankly, Max is in hotter water because Max made a rule infringement that is slam dunk evident.

again, i can NOT imagine ANY penalty.

[Ryar]

You need to grow up a bit with the FIA driven by Mercedes, especially when you show yourself to be very biased.

viewtopic.php?p=1008240#p1008240

Attack the post, not the poster.
Following that easy rule makes everything so much enjoyable for everyone.
We all come here to talk about cars, and F1 and drivers and teams.
Not to talk about what poster A thinks that poster B thinks about what moderator C did to a post from user D about user E.
Anything falling in the last category might be subject to deletion without explanation, and without consistency: treated as background noise: something to be cleaned, but not to obsess about cleaning perfectly.

Attack the post, not the poster.

With your anti Hamilton/Mercedes narrative and your seemingly deliberate attempts at winding other forum members up, You make that very difficult at times.

Getting wound up is a choice that individuals consciously make in their own full capacity. It's not against the forum rules for an individual to express an opinion about a driver or a team. But going on personal attack, is against the rules. There are civilized ways to handle arguments and disagreements.

[jumpingfish]

About Vettel: he touched Haas during post-race parc ferme.

44) POST RACE PARC FERMÉ
44.1 Only those officials charged with supervision may enter the post-race parc fermé. No
intervention of any kind is allowed there unless authorised by such officials.
44.2 When the parc fermé is in use, parc fermé regulations will apply in the area between the Line
and the parc fermé entrance.
44.3 The parc fermé shall be secured such that no unauthorised persons can gain access to it.

[ringo]

What this might come down to: Can The FIA prove when the wing stopped passing the regulation? did begin to break the regulation during qualifying or after max touched it? How can you know for a fact? how do you prove it?

you can't, AND Mercedes does not NEED to because after all, the part in question has come under scrutiny AFTER getting a rule infringement made by another driver.

there is no legal base for anything in regards to mercedes.
quite frankly, Max is in hotter water because Max made a rule infringement that is slam dunk evident.

again, i can NOT imagine ANY penalty.

Additionally mercedes can have a dowell stop on their wing to limit how far it moves vertically.
Max did touch the endplate. He could have easily plucked out a dowell there.
So again, we dont even have to assume Merc got away with anything. Max could really and truly be the cause of the car failing the test.
Pluck a dowell out or a loose screw and flap moves up unhindered. Simple.

[djones]

Max messed up. It's not a matter of if he can damage the wing with a few touches.
It's a matter of sabotage is possible.
The wing is carbon but the hinges dont have to be. Also we do not know what he could have done, maybe move the lower wing down on its fixings. The point is as stated before there was tampering by an unauthorized party and so the case is spoiled. Max's own inexperience costinf his team.
Vettel never touches in parc ferme. He looks. When he does touch it's they tyre and outside of parc ferme.
I think this lets mercedes off the hook and max willl get a reprimand.
It's just not right for him to be touching the car especially the part in question. It can be construed that he was instructed by his team to sabotage the wing.
And i do believe it's possible for him to compromise the wing by squeezing parts of it. A mm is such a small distance.
If he squeezes it at a point it was not designed to be loaded it can be compromised.
A wing sees a uniformly distributed load. A squeeze is a point load. We do not know her mercedes designed their wings. So Max unfortunately can be said to be the cause of the failure even though it's unlikely. The thing is it is possible.

100% this.

It was a slam dunk penalty for Hamilton until Max touched it.

He touched it, therefore causing a chance (no matter how small) that he damaged the wing. In a court, that chance is all you would need.

[Ryar]

What this might come down to: Can The FIA prove when the wing stopped passing the regulation? did begin to break the regulation during qualifying or after max touched it? How can you know for a fact? how do you prove it?

you can't, AND Mercedes does not NEED to because after all, the part in question has come under scrutiny AFTER getting a rule infringement made by another driver.

there is no legal base for anything in regards to mercedes.
quite frankly, Max is in hotter water because Max made a rule infringement that is slam dunk evident.

again, i can NOT imagine ANY penalty.

Additionally mercedes can have a dowell stop on their wing to limit how far it moves vertically.
Max did touch the endplate. He could have easily plucked out a dowell there.
So again, we dont even have to assume Merc got away with anything. Max could really and truly be the cause of the car failing the test.
Pluck a dowell out or a loose screw and flap moves up unhindered. Simple.

Subjected to proving such an action from Max. Onus on Mercedes to provide the evidence of it.

[dans79]

Horner is being very cagey about saying anything about what Max was looking at or if he has any concerns about the Merc wing.

[nokivasara]

I wonder why the stewards decisions always take so long? Even some very clear incidents during at race is often decided after the race. Is it just to make themselves seem more important or what? In case with Max's parc ferme infringement it should be an easy decision for them, but now that it takes so long one could suspect that they are making some sort of a package deal with the Merc rear wing and Max's fingers that results in what's best for the WDC battle.
I think that if the decisions were made in a more reasonable time frame we would have far less outcries of FIA/Merc marriage or FIArarri as it used to be back in the Schumi era.

Sorry for going OT, looking forward to the sprint (not really) and the race tomorrow!