Ferrari F14T

[Ganxxta]

About that... I checked their website and one of their "regular" products is this:
http://turbo.honeywell.com/our-technolo ... ochargers/

Is this possible with F1 rules or has a conventional design to be used?
If they used the same idea for their F1 Turbo and their numbers are more or less adoptable, this would be a big advantage compared to a conventional turbo design for F1 terms.

I'm surprised that they are sharing so many technical details, have fun:
http://turbo.honeywell.com/assets/pdfs/ ... tation.pdf

What do you guys think?

28.4 b) For the purposes of this Article 28.4 the power unit will be deemed to comprise six separate elements, the engine (ICE), the motor generator unit-kinetic (MGU-K), the motor generator unit-heat (MGU-H), the energy store (ES), turbocharger (TC) and control electronics (CE).

Says nothing about turbo design.

I made nice research on that area in here http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 66#p458366 on "Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula" topic.

We discused in very construtive way. What are pros and cons, and talk about its legality (all aspect were discused, gear ratio, singlke/multiturbine, radial vs. axial etc.). Please read also carefully the rules and whole ongoing topic and make own conclusions.

Before also the user "Holm86" proposed that type of technology so you are no the first and last who ask this. So PLEASE read linked topic. Cheers!

Cool, thanks.

I now read your linked post and will follow up with the others later on.

I avoided this thread because its now just way to big to find anything specific.

[fawe4]

A quick reminder that the car threads are meant to focus on the actual features of the actual car.

Discussion of lap times & tyres belong in the respective race and test threads.

Yin-yang posts about engine bhp have their own dustbin http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... =4&t=15352

For the avoidance of doubt, these threads are for posts about things you can touch or see - ie "what is it?" or "how does it work?"

What's the problem in having Ferraris engine discussion here? General engine discussion should be posted in general engine topic, but Ferraris engine is part of F14T, so it's discussion must be allowed in this topic.

[shady]

5.9 is pretty open and shut. wrt the VGT... some really upsetting arbitrary limitations in the regs..

[scuderiafan]

Supposedly Ferrari has some sort of electronic clutch system? Not sure, I don't know Italian and the translation is iffy.

http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it ... ica/13579/

[elFranZ]

Supposedly Ferrari has some sort of electronic clutch system? Not sure, I don't know Italian and the translation is iffy.

http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it ... ica/13579/

Basically they are just reporting of the rumored cut-off system apparently used in the 059/3 engine: during downshifts Ferrari is shutting off the thermal unit, using the MGU-K to keep the rotating regime high enough to engage each gear.
Autosprint also reports some observer from other teams saying they do this for fuel consumption problems.

My opinion is you do that on purpose, not because you have problems. We'll see in a few days.

[theWPTformula]

Supposedly Ferrari has some sort of electronic clutch system? Not sure, I don't know Italian and the translation is iffy.

http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it ... ica/13579/

My interpretation is that instead of using the ICE to match the speed needed for the downshift, they just use the MGU-K to increase rotation speed along the crankshaft before downshifting. Saves a bit of fuel and seems to be working well for them.

[C Plinius Secundus]

In the Autosprint electronic edicola: "Per questo la Ferrari ha studiato un sistema tutto particolare. Invece del motore termico V6, è quello elettrico, per la precisione lo Mgu-K (“erede” del Kers) che provvede a innalzare il regime per la scalata di marcia."

"For this, Ferrari has developed a particular system. Instead of using the thermal V6 engine, it's the MGU-K ( "heir" of the KERS) the one that increases the engine rpms for the downshift"

[Robbobnob]

I believe it will be more around 'response' time rather than a fuel saving effort.

By using the MGU-K, there is more torque available in order to reach the critical engine revs required in lesser time. Also there will be better control over the systems than the ICE could hope to manage due to inherent dampening in the throttle response and back pressure from the exhaust.

We are in reality only talking fractions of a second but in F1, every second counts. But yes there will also be a fuel saving benefit.

[Chuckjr]

There's been talk in the -what's wrong with the Renault engine?- thread about the OVER generation of power in the braking sequence and this abundance of electricity is blowing up the RB battery system--to simplify and use VERY elementary vocabulary.

Maybe this Ferrari trick is a creative and effective way to resolve an overcharge situation by exhausting the electrical overage through driving the crank--which also aids in gear shifting, fuel saving, engine heat generation...

[Mr.G]

I believe it will be more around 'response' time rather than a fuel saving effort.

By using the MGU-K, there is more torque available in order to reach the critical engine revs required in lesser time. Also there will be better control over the systems than the ICE could hope to manage due to inherent dampening in the throttle response and back pressure from the exhaust.

We are in reality only talking fractions of a second but in F1, every second counts. But yes there will also be a fuel saving benefit.

ICE efficiency 30%-35% ???
EM efficiency 90-95% ???

[Abarth]

All correct, but if you do not have any consumption problems (i.e. you can go flat out) than yo'd rather care about having an ES as full as possible to get as much as possible power out of it with MGU-K.
And in that case, you do blip the engine with fuel and not with the ES energy.

[diffuser]

I'M of the opinion that under braking with the driver's foot off the throttle, engine RPM is irrelevant to the amount of fuel it is burning. If the port injector is not injecting fuel, you ain't burning it. It is also very normal to be using the MGU-K under braking since that's its' primary use.

The term "doppietta elettrica" or double electrical suggests to me that they believe Ferrari are some how using both MGUs under braking to charge the batteries and by passing the engine.

[turbof1]

I'M of the opinion that under braking with the driver's foot off the throttle, engine RPM is irrelevant to the amount of fuel it is burning. If the port injector is not injecting fuel, you ain't burning it. It is also very normal to be using the MGU-K under braking since that's its' primary use.

The term "doppietta elettrica" or double electrical suggests to me that they believe Ferrari are some how using both MGUs under braking to charge the batteries and by passing the engine.

I think the term is more due to the mgu-h spinning up the turbo, while the mgu-k is harvesting.

[.poz]

All correct, but if you do not have any consumption problems (i.e. you can go flat out) than yo'd rather care about having an ES as full as possible to get as much as possible power out of it with MGU-K.
And in that case, you do blip the engine with fuel and not with the ES energy.

If you are aiming at max performance yes, if you are aiming at max efficiency no.

[.poz]

The term "doppietta elettrica" or double electrical suggests to me that they believe Ferrari are some how using both MGUs under braking to charge the batteries and by passing the engine.

The term "doppietta" means double declutching. In Italian is the technique you use to drive cars with Non-synchronous transmission (i.e. older model of Fiat 500). They just blip the engine rev up with the MGU-K on gear downshift.