Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
tpe
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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The logical thing is to homologate a full set of components in one race. Then use them at will.

tpe
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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How can someone find out if an engine failure is because of overheating?
I suspect they have some signs, but what are they?
And if the engine overheads, is it purely on the engine side or the cooling pack can help them?

AR3-GP
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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michl420 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 5:25 pm
AR3-GP wrote:
Sun Jun 12, 2022 11:20 pm
Don't they have climate chambers for the Power unit dyno?
I think an engine don`t care what climate it is. water and oil temperatur it is what count. And of course cylinder pressure.
I mean generally speaking, a way to simulate the heating and cooling of the engine and heat soak under the engine cover.

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Big Tea
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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tpe wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:45 pm
How can someone find out if an engine failure is because of overheating?
I suspect they have some signs, but what are they?
And if the engine overheads, is it purely on the engine side or the cooling pack can help them?
Its not the overheating that does the damage, it is what causes other things to fail.
It is usually not getting the heat away from where it is produced fast enough and something goes above its highest allowed operating temperature and melts or expands too much and 'lock up'. Some things just plain melt, but I would not think there are many in a F1 engine. The other problem is the oil being too hot and becoming a vapour instead of being where it should be.

There are lots of other things, but they can usually tell by which parts failed.
Sorry if I have answered too simply, but I dont know how much you already know and assumed you were asking 'in general' Apologies if you are a boffin :mrgreen:
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Big Tea
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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tpe wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:28 pm
The logical thing is to homologate a full set of components in one race. Then use them at will.
Sam Collins said he has to take a turbo charger too and suggests he take one from the old (previous) engine or it will be a 10 place drop

When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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chrisc90
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Re: Ferrari F1-75

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Oh wow. Didnt realise they were in that much of a tight situation with the turbos! I wonder what the chances are of swapping the turbos over within a week.
No Mikey Noo! No! Nooo Mikey! That was sooo not riiight!!

tpe
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I think I am a bit over that, since I do understand the basics :D , but I do appreciate your answer. And from it, I understand that, usually, they can pin-point the root cause and they are not just guess what could possibly went wrong.

And also, it is possible to fix the issue with another cooling solution, right?

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aleks_ader
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Normally heat soak under engine cover is not primarily cause for overheating. Ofc heat soak can effect CE, BMS or other electronics but that is other matter. Those Ferrari failures really seems mechanically destructive failures (seals, cracks, o-rings or whatever else).

After all that in grand scheme of things PU is somewhat agnostic to those soak effects and dont really do much damage. Main cooling causes are coming directly from oil, water temps. Other thing is gravity. That cant be simulated sadly. Although I believe purposing is simulated on dyno via "dynamic-simulated" fixtures via shaking post rigs.
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So it appears that the ICE and Turbo are both in-salvageable for Leclerc. They will bring a 3rd ICE with possibly the firs turbo (the only one they have in the pool) to avoid penalties.

Here’s the English translated article:
https://scuderiafans.com/baku-ferrari-i ... -salvaged/
-- Ancora Imparo

Alexf1
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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codetower wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:07 pm
So it appears that the ICE and Turbo are both in-salvageable for Leclerc. They will bring a 3rd ICE with possibly the firs turbo (the only one they have in the pool) to avoid penalties.

Here’s the English translated article:
https://scuderiafans.com/baku-ferrari-i ... -salvaged/
I thought you were not allowed to race a previous spec as soon as you've introduced a new spec, which according to AMUS and this same website they did on PU2 (reliability upgrade) https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-were-a ... y-problem/ or is the reliabity upgrade not done on the turbo but on the ICE after all?
Last edited by Alexf1 on Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dialtone
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:12 pm
codetower wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:07 pm
So it appears that the ICE and Turbo are both in-salvageable for Leclerc. They will bring a 3rd ICE with possibly the firs turbo (the only one they have in the pool) to avoid penalties.

Here’s the English translated article:
https://scuderiafans.com/baku-ferrari-i ... -salvaged/
I thought you were not allowed to race a previous spec as soon as you've introduced a new spec, which according to AMUS and this same website they did on PU2 (reliability upgrade) https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-were-a ... y-problem/ or is the reliabity upgrade done on a different component than the ones we're talking about here?
I don't remember this rule in the past, once an engine is homologated you can bring it wherever you want.

Alexf1
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dialtone wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:14 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:12 pm
codetower wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:07 pm
So it appears that the ICE and Turbo are both in-salvageable for Leclerc. They will bring a 3rd ICE with possibly the firs turbo (the only one they have in the pool) to avoid penalties.

Here’s the English translated article:
https://scuderiafans.com/baku-ferrari-i ... -salvaged/
I thought you were not allowed to race a previous spec as soon as you've introduced a new spec, which according to AMUS and this same website they did on PU2 (reliability upgrade) https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-were-a ... y-problem/ or is the reliabity upgrade done on a different component than the ones we're talking about here?
I don't remember this rule in the past, once an engine is homologated you can bring it wherever you want.
You're right. It's only when you're under parc ferme that you cannot use a different/previous spec. Sorry

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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I can't see Ferrari winning the case for a reliability upgrade because there are too many factors against them.

1. Their rivals will try to stop them
2. Their engines can be turned down and still be within the acceptable range of horsepower
3. The engines seem to fail near end of life and not start of life.
4. It could be a performane gainer that is causing the problems now.
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dxpetrov
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:16 pm
I can't see Ferrari winning the case for a reliability upgrade because there are too many factors against them.

1. Their rivals will try to stop them
2. Their engines can be turned down and still be within the acceptable range of horsepower
3. The engines seem to fail near end of life and not start of life.
4. It could be a performane gainer that is causing the problems now.
Only problem is that engine (P2 PU) failed after 3 races - Miami, Spain and not even third of Baku GP.

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Big Tea
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:16 pm
I can't see Ferrari winning the case for a reliability upgrade because there are too many factors against them.

1. Their rivals will try to stop them
2. Their engines can be turned down and still be within the acceptable range of horsepower
3. The engines seem to fail near end of life and not start of life.
4. It could be a performane gainer that is causing the problems now.
I think maybe some of the teams will want 'brownie points' in the bank with Ferrari so may chose the option that would do them the least harm short term. Merc are not going to catch either Ferrari or RBR so it will not matter to them which order they are in infront of them, and the other Ferrari engine teams are not in critical positions to anyone else.

It would seem to be one of the best possible times for Ferrari to try.
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