Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
f1316
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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Some interesting stuff on Ferrari diffuser updates in motorsport:

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferra ... ak-801317/

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tpe
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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godlameroso wrote:Probably difficulty getting the rake right, it either creates too much or too little rear downforce, and they can't control the rear suspension enough to maintain proper rake without making the rear end too snappy. So they compromise, and it's very good better than everyone except Mercedes and Red Bull, and possibly McLaren, but obviously it's not enough. They themselves have said the car has a very narrow setup window so I suppose this is what they mean.
If this is the case, it all down to the rear suspension setup. Which explains why Ferrari lost the most from the testing ban. ATL equipment should fix that, right? So, either they haven't master it yet, or the problems are far more worse... Just my 2 cents.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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Farrari has a tyre temperature problem that they are having difficulty solving. Let us not even go into Chassis and aero yet...
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bhall II
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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SF16-H, which represents a radical departure from its predecessors, is just underdeveloped compared to the cars ahead of it. W07 is the third iteration of a concept that started with W05, and RB12 is the third iteration of a concept that started with RB10. Plus, I'm 99.9% sure that the team has already shifted resources to the development of concepts applicable to next year's car, of which there won't be a whole lot carried over on the chassis side from SF16-H. So, I don't expect this year's car to get better (and that's OK).

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SR71
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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bhall II wrote:SF16-H, which represents a radical departure from its predecessors, is just underdeveloped compared to the cars ahead of it. W07 is the third iteration of a concept that started with W05, and RB12 is the third iteration of a concept that started with RB10. Plus, I'm 99.9% sure that the team has already shifted resources to the development of concepts applicable to next year's car, of which there won't be a whole lot carried over on the chassis side from SF16-H. So, I don't expect this year's car to get better (and that's OK).
so you expect next years car to be exactly as terrible as this years.

bhall II
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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SR71 wrote:so you expect next years car to be exactly as terrible as this years.
What sort of mental gymnastics did you need to come up with that interpretation?

Next year is more or less a whole new ball of wax for everyone...

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zioture
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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donskar
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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As a loyal Ferrari fan for over 55 years, it pains me to say this, but the Ferrari simply is not good enough. And it probably is not good enough in several areas: engine, aero, mechanical grip, reliability, race tactics, morale-- you name it.

Recent posters have surmised the Ferrari needs better aero, more rake, more testing, more development, etc, etc. YES to all of the above, and more.

James Allison has proven he is NOT the answer (and all sympathy to him for his wife's untimely death). We hear he wants out -- to return to England -- understandable. Certainly, Ferrari has the money and the mythic presence to hire nearly any man or woman it wants (except Newey). What is needed is NOT more talented individuals, but a more talented TEAM. Reportedly, Ferrari is interested in getting Brawn back. That MIGHT help create a TEAM, rather than a group of individuals. IMHO, Ferrari needs to create a team, then let it do its job without extraordinary outside pressures and expectations. Not likely to happen, but we can dream . . .
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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dans79
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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donskar wrote: IMHO, Ferrari needs to create a team, then let it do its job without extraordinary outside pressures and expectations. Not likely to happen, but we can dream . . .
The bold is Ferari's real problem. Senior management is like a bunch of over privileged self absorbed adolescents. They want everything to be perfect from day one, and when it isn't they throw a temper-tantrum, and start firing people or scrapping hole projects before they can even start to bare fruit.
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SR71
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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donskar wrote:As a loyal Ferrari fan for over 55 years, it pains me to say this, but the Ferrari simply is not good enough. And it probably is not good enough in several areas: engine, aero, mechanical grip, reliability, race tactics, morale-- you name it.

Recent posters have surmised the Ferrari needs better aero, more rake, more testing, more development, etc, etc. YES to all of the above, and more.

James Allison has proven he is NOT the answer (and all sympathy to him for his wife's untimely death). We hear he wants out -- to return to England -- understandable. Certainly, Ferrari has the money and the mythic presence to hire nearly any man or woman it wants (except Newey). What is needed is NOT more talented individuals, but a more talented TEAM. Reportedly, Ferrari is interested in getting Brawn back. That MIGHT help create a TEAM, rather than a group of individuals. IMHO, Ferrari needs to create a team, then let it do its job without extraordinary outside pressures and expectations. Not likely to happen, but we can dream . . .
I Vote for Brawn, he seems to be able to deflect outside corporate pressure from the team. He is extraordinary in his strategy and patience as well.

BTW, let's not forget Ferrari had Newey on verbal agreement just a couple years ago... But Ferrari being Ferrari they still managed to screw that one up.

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Thunder
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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So for an Aero noob, what exactly is Ferrari trying to achieve with all those Flaps and Winglets on the side of the Diffusor (and all the slots on the side of the RW Endplate too in the Dissusor Area)? To me it looks like "we don't know how to achieve it the elegant way, so we slap more Wings on it until we get what we want." Of course that is most likely very far from what is really going on but that is just the impression i get after seeing them adding more elements over and over. Seeing the RedBull or McLaren on the other hand, there is just one clean Diffusor and that's it.

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timbo
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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Judging from Hungary performance I would say SF16-H main weakness is managing the tyres. It only really works at high temperatures. Call me crazy, but RBR IMO does not have vastly superior chassis on the aero side. Sure it's better, but I don't think it's aero -- IMO it's mechanical grip and tyre management where they are definitely holding an advantage. Meanwhile Renault is on par with the drivetrain.
As far needing more rake -- why? Merc performs with even less rake.

santos
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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Thunders wrote:So for an Aero noob, what exactly is Ferrari trying to achieve with all those Flaps and Winglets on the side of the Diffusor (and all the slots on the side of the RW Endplate too in the Dissusor Area)? To me it looks like "we don't know how to achieve it the elegant way, so we slap more Wings on it until we get what we want." Of course that is most likely very far from what is really going on but that is just the impression i get after seeing them adding more elements over and over. Seeing the RedBull or McLaren on the other hand, there is just one clean Diffusor and that's it.

http://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl/ ... detail.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoC1XE6XgAE-1UB.jpg
I'm not even an aero noob, but what you say about the diffusor of Ferrari, i say about the barge board of Mercedes. "Hey let's make some cuts and triangles." If in both cases that makes such a difference? I don't know. But i'm not even an aero noob.

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Thunder
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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But we're in the Ferrari Thread and the Merc Bargeboard surely has been discussed in the W07 Thread. Although i guess what Merc does with their serrated Bargeboards is a little different than what Ferrari does at the Diffusor. But i don't know, that's why i ask. If you feel offended by it (purely going by the Tone of your Post, if not, all is good) i'm sorry. I think i wrote it in a pretty non offensive Tone because i don't want to bash Ferrari, i want to know WHY they do what they do.
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flickerf1
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H

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Thunders wrote:But we're in the Ferrari Thread and the Merc Bargeboard surely has been discussed in the W07 Thread. Although i guess what Merc does with their serrated Bargeboards is a little different than what Ferrari does at the Diffusor. But i don't know, that's why i ask. If you feel offended by it (purely going by the Tone of your Post, if not, all is good) i'm sorry. I think i wrote it in a pretty non offensive Tone because i don't want to bash Ferrari, i want to know WHY they do what they do.
Hungarian GP tech debrief: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hunga ... ak-802408/
However, in Hungary, an extended flap appeared to stretch forward from this cluster of winglets toward the brake duct ahead (highlighted in yellow) enticing the airflow to interact.

This is a particularly sensitive area of the car with the deformation of the tyre and motion of the suspended parts constantly changing how the airflow moves.

This new flap should pinch the airflow and force it to accelerate toward the diffuser's footplate, improving not only the performance of the diffuser's outer channel but also provide a more efficient flow structure for the winglet stack too.

This should improve the overall performance of the diffuser as flow consistency is improved across the board.
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