Ferrari’s Sebastian Vettel topped the timing-sheet ahead of the all-important qualifying session. The German driver went on to claim the best time with a 1:12.395 in front of his team-mate Kimi Räikkönen.
I do not see the controversy. Verstappen pitted and Mercedes followed with Bottas. Verstappen had a 3.5 stop and Bottas a 2.7 if I recall correctly. Mercedes are pretty good on strategy so they thought the undercut would work. Bottas and Verstappen were pretty close when they came out of the pits so a better stop for Verstappen and the undercut could have worked. I don't think Ferrari engineered it. They reacted and Kimi's strategy did not work out.
Also, Erricsson pitted on lap 37 which gave Vettel and in turn Riccardo a bit more clear track. Would Ferrari really know when Sauber would pit and thus give Vettel a bit more clear track to push? A bit of luck there perhaps but fact remains Vettel was fast when he needed to be and Kimi with clear air before the stops was not as quick. Yes, his strategy was not the best but we can only say that with hindsight. Everybody has 20/20 hindsight. If he held his lead after the stops we would praise Ferrari for a good job.
It is Monaco and someone will always end up with things not working out perfectly.
BOT was stuck behind Sainz too. If they didn't pit him with VER then only VER would be stuck and BOT would stay ahead of both VER and RIC.
Undercut did not work at all in Monaco. Overcut did work (at least for VET). SS tire was quite a bit slower at first and US could last whole race (and also traffic made undercut worse/riskier).
Do you have evidence to support HAM dropping behind GRO? Live Timing was BUGGED as hell for me, but from what I could tell HAM was doing faster laps than GRO without even trying hard.
Last edited by Steven on 28 May 2017, 22:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Remove personal comments
BOT was stuck behind Sainz too. If they didn't pit him with VER then only VER would be stuck and BOT would stay ahead of both VER and RIC.
Sainz times were dropping like mad. Low 17s to high 18s. A bet on a soon Sainz stop was easy. It just came a bit late...there was nothing to loose, but it was a strange call by Torro Rosso to leave him out with these times. I wonder if he would have stayed out with only Ver behind.
Undercut did not work at all in Monaco. Overcut did work (at least for VET). SS tire was quite a bit slower at first and US could last whole race (and also traffic made undercut worse/riskier).
Again: Ver lost nearly a second in the pits and Bot still came out only close in front. I still do not see any argument on a not working undercut. Only the circumstances were bad.
Do you have evidence to support HAM dropping behind GRO? Live Timing was BUGGED as hell for me, but from what I could tell HAM was doing faster laps than GRO without even trying hard.
Lap 45 Gro: 1:17.095, Ham: 1:17.469
There was even more the danger of running into a backmarker than the danger of Gro running low 17s for a long time. As soon as the target (getting past Gro) was achieved, Ham pitted. There was nothing else to win, a few laps more and Sai would have been out of the SC window.
Last edited by Steven on 28 May 2017, 22:42, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Removed response to deleted parts
I honestly think Kimi is fine with Seb winning, Seb wants to break MS's record and Kimi is his friend.
Kimi has nothing to lose - he's happy and rich - and helping a good friend make the rest of the field (who he doesn't like) look average is probably good fun for him.
Oh dear, look at this. A race was done, we had some very, very minor controversial events. I'm going to check a few pages just to be sure, but I'm sure our fine and well mannered members are having a debate in all serenity... wait, what do we have here:
So, all those Ferrari supporters who kept on crying how Mercedes used Bottas as No.2,...
Seriously?
Also funny how Monaco is suddenly rubbish - seem to remember it was more interesting for you in previous years...
You seemed quite interested when you posted about a thousand times last year.
...
Your guy didn't win, fair enough, and you're upset; but it doesn't mean everything is suddenly bad and wrong. Kinda sour grapes from the guy who's been slating Ferrari for so long to give absolutely no credit when they win.
Is anyone debating Bottas being No.2? Atleast I don't. I am only questioning the hypocricy that Ferrari fans show about other team's using a NO.2.
Nonsense.
This is BS that you knew it was a done deal.
But VER didn't undercut BOT, so your argument is invalid. I mean ffs RIC OVERCUT BOTH OF THEM!
Or are you trolling?
basti313 I don't appreciate the omnislashing nor the poor logic.
This is getting out of hand, if not for the overuse of bad language than for playing right down on the person instead of discussing the discussion. Thread is locked until I feel like handling the situation. There will again be warnings wherever applicable. To those who actually behave and do want to have a good and clean debate: I'm sorry for this but your fellow members forced intervention.
Reopened. Bottomline of this round was overall stereotyping of, whether or not imaginary, groups of fans, foul language and trying to put snidy, personal comments to another.
Warnings have been dealt out. A reminder that any second warning given in a race thread will result in a 48h ban given at a later date. The ban does not erase the 2 warnings, meaning another, longer ban will follow at a 3th warning if the other warnings did not expire.
To pick out the comment that actually was a shiny example of how you should communicate:
Great Race! Better then Sochi (where if fell asleep).
Vettel definiatly seemed to have the better pace then Kimi. Verstappen was also good underway and wasn't so happy when he found out Ricci was in front of him.
About Kimi getting 2nd, well his emotions would have been the same if he would have won.
Positive. Reasonable. Constructed. Well mannered. Jokingly. My good sir, in between the absolute mess I found that post, your post is:
...I would aver that KR had the measure of SV on newer rubber...once the sliding starts, SV had the measure of KR. After the lead switched...it seemed that KR was quite willing to, and unable to better, riding around in 2nd.
In general, I'd say the above scenario is a bit telling, while KR is still a superior driver to some (or most), time, age, and personality has him relegated to a 2nd driver role...not a bad gig really.
Vettel and Ricciardo put in some very quick laps, they were both second on the road to their team mates and so were "obliged" to pit second as most teams usually operate that way if all else is equal. Their quick laps coincided with slower laps by those that had pitted before (Traffic etc.) so the overcut worked in their favour, I do not think either team deliberately sacrificed their leading drivers chance to maintain their current position at the start of the pit stop window.
Kimi's pace after pitting and coming out second was down to the fact that he knew he would be unable to pass Vettel on the road (because it was virtually impossible to make a clean pass for anybody today) and decided it made no sense to drive at 100% and risk kissing the barriers when had nothing to gain.
- So team orders came in the form of a pitstop switch. Told ya.
- Another chapter in the epic '17 championship battle.
- Hamilton's car fixed itself mid-race. It will make excuses making harder .
As the team have already said, the issue in qualifying was with tyre warmup.
So it's entirely understandable that he had pace in the race.
Not true, he complained about the car during the race. As for Q even if the car is not working perfectly there's still driver's responsibility to extract 100%, Hamilton didn't. That's why I call this media overreaction about Mercedes - excuses.
- So team orders came in the form of a pitstop switch. Told ya.
- Another chapter in the epic '17 championship battle.
- Hamilton's car fixed itself mid-race. It will make excuses making harder .
As the team have already said, the issue in qualifying was with tyre warmup.
So it's entirely understandable that he had pace in the race.
Not true, he complained about the car during the race. As for Q even if the car is not working perfectly there's still driver's responsibility to extract 100%, Hamilton didn't. That's why I call this media overreaction about Mercedes - excuses.
All he said in the race is that the tyres feel good but there is no grip. Pretty sure he's said that when leading races before.
He didn't extract 100% no, but looking at the sector times on his lap and prior laps he was only gonna scrape into Q3 anyway. There was no pace in the car and something fundamentally wrong.
I must say, indeed, not as mind-bogglingly boring as Sochi, but still, i was really bored during the race.
Some things nevertheless atleast happened;
The Wehrlein-Button contact was interesting. That looked very frightening to be honest at first, i knew right away it was Wehrlein somehow and spooked about his previous incident, very happy to hear he was ok through the radio. Very clumsy move of JB.
Not as clumsy as that of Ericsson though. To fail that hard during the safety car overtaking period deserves a Maldonado trophy of sorts.
The track wasn't in it's best condition there but then again, hello people, you're driving off the line, it doesnt matter how the track is anywhere, offline you're gonna get less grip and with colder tires must be more careful. Absolutely dumb crash and his response im sorry to say is even dumber.
Then as if that wasn't enough to concider, VanDoorne makes the same mistake, and ends Mclaren's weekend in total failure. He could have brought home points. Way to go to ruin that weekend like that, i don't think that's gonna do good for your resumé and GP briefings.
Vettel overcut thing was a bit of a low blow to be honest, but can't say that i was surprised. I'm not making too much of that though, Raikkonen is rather behind the battle between VET and HAM so it's not really odd to think ferrari places their bets on Vettel, who really didn't do anything wrong and really did push out some amazing laps right there.
Verstappen's moaning could have seen that coming from the other side of the world, understandably to a certain degree, but then again bloke, first time you're finishing here and perhaps you could have done a bit more on Bottas, though offcourse the slow pitstop was not his fault.
DannyRic was the luckiest of luckers there. How A) he was lucky enough for his suspension to survive was beyond words (that would have been a Safety Car, too), and B) how on earth he managed to then not have a puncture was surprising too and C) how he managed to keep his position is even more surprising, though offcourse he positioned his car wide and difficult, still.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
