Red Bull RB18

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
User avatar
organic
140
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Thunder wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:39 am
Please, ONLY discuss technical items of this car. Refrain from speculation.
Given the TD039 stuff remains speculation at this point, please move discussions of it to team thread. Also can we please get back to topic... I get some of you are fans of RB but I do not come to this thread to see photo of max with an AT wing.

The thread is derailed the last 2 pages otherwise I wouldn't respond simply report and move on. Please, please respect that the car threads are for technical discussion
:(

User avatar
diffuser
158
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Andi76 wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:53 am
ringo wrote:
Thu Jun 30, 2022 2:03 am
AR3-GP wrote:
Wed Jun 29, 2022 3:13 am
What's very interesting in that speculative piece is they show how the center of pressure moves forwards as the car lowers. This could explain the RB18's low speed understeery nature.
It will move forward if the diffuser is contributing less relative to the rest of the floor as the rear comes down.

The article does agree that the fundamebtal purpose of having rake in the car is still relevant
And yes the rake helps against the porpoising.
I agree that rake helps against porpoising. It quite logical, as one of the "tools" against porpoising is a higher ride height. With rake, you run the car with a higher ride height at the rear, so of course this will help against porpoising.

But i also think the "relevance" of rake is getting highly exaggerated here. F1 cars have a higher ride height at the rear since the 70's. In the early 2000's for example, the F1-2000 worked best with a front ride height of 10-15 front and 30-35 rear. So having some rake is a very common approach for almost 50 years. It was only the "high rake"-concept that was unusual. And no car today has a high-rake concept. So we are pretty much at rake angles today, that had been used for decades. Of course you can follow that this makes rake still relevant. But you can also say that it is not, as we are back to the common approach used for several decades with no little differences between the teams like it was before the concept of "high-rake" was used.
I guess rake is rake but the rake being run this year is nothing like what we've had in the past. We saw almost 3 degrees of rake in past years. This year, outside of preseason, you're lucky to have seen .5 of a degree.

User avatar
Stu
Moderator
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:05 am
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

organic wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:50 pm
Thunder wrote:
Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:39 am
Please, ONLY discuss technical items of this car. Refrain from speculation.
Given the TD039 stuff remains speculation at this point, please move discussions of it to team thread. Also can we please get back to topic... I get some of you are fans of RB but I do not come to this thread to see photo of max with an AT wing.

The thread is derailed the last 2 pages otherwise I wouldn't respond simply report and move on. Please, please respect that the car threads are for technical discussion
:(
Thread now cleaned up. Items of technical merit have been moved to a new thread, team stuff has been moved to the team thread, and Mercedes 2021 arguments have been trashed along with ‘1+2=653’ statements around the claim of “cheating”.

PLEASE EVERYONE, post in the correct threads!!
The more that I learn, the more I appreciate how much more there is to know….

User avatar
gandharva
224
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:19 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

via AMUS

Image

Image

Image

via motorsport.com
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
-4
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 2:39 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Again the high downforce wing for a low downforce track.
This is important development, as similar to what Mercedes achieved towards the end of 2021 when they had superior top speed with similar rear wing configuration on the car.
This means that RB managed to remove additional drag level with the latest car updates.
This is not a good sign for the competition, as we saw a glimpse of it at the FP3 and beginning of last race! Remember that prior to that Silverstone was suppose to be a track that suits Ferrari, and then what happened. Press is overhyped with Mercedes and Ferrari and are failing to point out this, at least not as much as they should. And RB are staying silent and talking only as if they only have a ''good car''. The body language and behavior of Max after what should have been a really disappointing race, is quite telling.

User avatar
ME4ME
74
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

They do however run with a single beam wing element.

And is Red Bulls straight line speed really still superior? I think we haven't really seen that as clearly since Miami and previously Saudi Arabia. Ferrari has made progress. Basically the two teams have converged on a good middle ground.

dxpetrov
dxpetrov
-4
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 2:39 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

yes they have, and my point is about last race, when Ferrari had super low downforce rear wing and still were not able to achieve RB top speed, who ran a barn door wing. I believe the difference was 5-6 km/h.
But even if it was less, the point is they can run a higher DF package and still have better drag coefficient. Which means the car is faster in corners and can protect tyres better in the race, and at same time not lose anything in the straights.

Cassius
Cassius
6
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:54 am

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

dxpetrov wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:51 pm
yes they have, and my point is about last race, when Ferrari had super low downforce rear wing and still were not able to achieve RB top speed, who ran a barn door wing. I believe the difference was 5-6 km/h.
But even if it was less, the point is they can run a higher DF package and still have better drag coefficient. Which means the car is faster in corners and can protect tyres better in the race, and at same time not lose anything in the straights.
There is convergence between Ferrari and RB indeed, but I agree with you that because they have found more floor df, cleaned up the flow, they have a better DF/drag ratio and can now shed some rear df. They do this by removing the 2nd beam wing element. They keep the larger rear wing as then it can benefit more from DRS. Because Silverstone and Austria both have 3 DRS zones I am not surprised they keep the bigger rear wing here.

User avatar
organic
140
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Image

Red Bull continue their iterative development of the front brake duct cooling. They have been updating this area continuously from the beginning of the season.

This new deployment has more curvature and detailing which suggests to me they're arriving at the performance level desired of their brakes. Not seeking radical redesigns but optimization

Andi76
Andi76
83
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 7:19 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

dxpetrov wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:39 pm
Again the high downforce wing for a low downforce track.
This is important development, as similar to what Mercedes achieved towards the end of 2021 when they had superior top speed with similar rear wing configuration on the car.
This means that RB managed to remove additional drag level with the latest car updates.
This is not a good sign for the competition, as we saw a glimpse of it at the FP3 and beginning of last race! Remember that prior to that Silverstone was suppose to be a track that suits Ferrari, and then what happened. Press is overhyped with Mercedes and Ferrari and are failing to point out this, at least not as much as they should. And RB are staying silent and talking only as if they only have a ''good car''. The body language and behavior of Max after what should have been a really disappointing race, is quite telling.
Thats too one dimensional, i think. The Ferraris were 11 kph faster through Maggotts into Becketts. You can easily draw the conclusion now that Ferrari produces superior downforce even when they use their low-downforce wing and thats not a good sign for the competition, especially since Ferrari is only 5-6 kph slower on the straights...but thats also too one dimensional. Both caers are very close together, with a different approach. And every approach has its pros and cons. But its neither a good or a bad sign for neither of them. And these team-related track advantages are senseless anyway with two cars that are so close together.

User avatar
organic
140
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Image

User avatar
organic
140
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Unfortunately don't know the source of images as found on Twitter, but the fence leading edge has seen some revision:

Image

Interesting new shape of the inboard fence leading edge

The outboard strake doesn't look too different to me, but the pictures I have point to it because whoever added the emojis thought it was different - probably just angle
Last edited by organic on Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

Sevach
Sevach
927
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Image
Image

And another angle of the floor

Image
Last edited by Sevach on Fri Jul 08, 2022 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
organic
140
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Hmm that's pretty cool. Similar to Haas' cooling exit beneath their fin

New inboard fence extends significantly further forwards than before

Another angle of new floor leading edge geometry

Image

Looks to me like the red line might be the original geometry and they've bonded on the blue highlighted section hence why it's stepped? Feels like in the original image & Fabrega's image there's a discontinuity in the carbon weave along the red line which I drew which suggests this theory could be true, or I'm seeing things Image

User avatar
deadhead
5
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:24 pm

Re: Red Bull RB18

Post

Image


Under the plank I guess