2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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AeroDynamic
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Andres125sx wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:02 am
I´ve always considered Rosberg title as a proof of Hamilton lack of motivation. Not saying he does not deserve it, none was faster than him that season so he deserve it. But let´s be honest, Rosberg has never been a rival of Hamilton in normal conditions. Similar to Button, Raikonnen, etc, a very good driver who, if in a top car, can win titles, but not a top class into the top class.

But this is F1, car and team counts even more than driver, so some top class into the top class never won a title, while some other lower class drivers won some. Like it or not, this is F1
I agree. I think when drivers are title less or its been years between highs, their hunger intensity makes them operate that little bit more 'on it' than other times. Once you've won a title or two, its easy to 'relax' a little and enjoy it more (human nature)

I think when Hamilton loses a title he knows he could have won (07, '16, '21?) he can tap into that peak motivation and hunger again. perhaps we saw it coming back towards the back end of last season as well.

I don't believe Michael was hungry enough to adapt to all the new things when he came back.

I think Verstappen will still be operating very high but if he's in a close fight with a hungry Leclerc or Russel / Norris with a slightly lesser car, I would give them the edge in terms of hunger/motivation. Verstappen's '21 consistency really showed how much he wanted that title imo.

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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Testing, testing!!

This belongs in the predictions thread, surely. Take it there please.

This is the TESTING thread.
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Stu wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 10:25 am
Testing, testing!!

This belongs in the predictions thread, surely. Take it there please.

This is the TESTING thread.
Hey, season is about to start, we’re testing the moderators so they are all ready for the first “he pushed me off” corner.

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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Anyone noticed a distinct lack of chatter when it comes to managing tyres and who Anyone thinks is the best or worst at it for testing this year?

Sure there's outright laptines that always get downplayed, and visual drivability that should've given Ferrari at least their 6th constructors championship in the hybrid era.

But usually we spend a lot of time looking at long run stints and there's usually some kind of easy to see conclusions, but I've not noticed much talk about tyre management at all really.

Given how much time these new cars hemorrhage in slower speed corners in all phases (braking, rotating the car and acceleration) is it possible that some teams might find they'll accept a little porpoising with higher downforce IF it can somehow translate into less wear in the types of corners that these cars are having a tough time with?

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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Just to put 2007 into perspective, it would be like RedBull signing Oscar Piastri this season and ditching Perez. Then come the end of the year Piastri finishes higher than Max in the championship. Would that happen ? If it did, how good would Piastri need to be ?

Anyway, as for testing, when was the last time we had an official test, and 1 week later we went to the very same track, with the same conditions to see what the real pecking order is. We will see 100% who was running light in testing, or who had the PU turned up. We have lap times, sector times and Speed trap data to compare with the cars all likely to be almost identical to 1 week earlier. So we will get a real good look at who was 'sandbagging' and/or who was on some glory runs. Usually Going from Barcelona testing, to Melbourne with a 2/3 week gap means the cars get changed a lot, and the circuit is completely different , with massive changes to conditions. So this is the first in a long time where we will get a true picture to who was near the limit of their car and who wasn't. The only real exception will be Mercedes if they get a new floor to work in time.
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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NathanOlder wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:00 am
Just to put 2007 into perspective, it would be like RedBull signing Oscar Piastri this season and ditching Perez. Then come the end of the year Piastri finishes higher than Max in the championship. Would that happen ? If it did, how good would Piastri need to be ?

Anyway, as for testing, when was the last time we had an official test, and 1 week later we went to the very same track, with the same conditions to see what the real pecking order is. We will see 100% who was running light in testing, or who had the PU turned up. We have lap times, sector times and Speed trap data to compare with the cars all likely to be almost identical to 1 week earlier. So we will get a real good look at who was 'sandbagging' and/or who was on some glory runs. Usually Going from Barcelona testing, to Melbourne with a 2/3 week gap means the cars get changed a lot, and the circuit is completely different , with massive changes to conditions. So this is the first in a long time where we will get a true picture to who was near the limit of their car and who wasn't. The only real exception will be Mercedes if they get a new floor to work in time.
Last year we had Bahrain Pre season test, but it was 2 week gap i believe from my memory, but yeah many teams still sandbag as its called generally, but its more of a planned running each team have for testing, no two team will have similar schedule, so to compare the times its pointless, but behavior of cars yes to a certain degree. Cars like Ferrari, Mclaren and RedBull performed much better in handling compared to Mercedes but i still think Mercedes have a slight upperhand because the propoising issues will be suddenly gone as its just a smokescreen they have set for other teams and media.

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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Wouter wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:34 am
DChemTech wrote:
Mon Mar 14, 2022 11:15 am
Are there any long-run comparisons (other than the merc/RB/ferrari one)? Haven't seen a lot related to the teams that weren't 2021 front runners or Ferrari so far.
No comparisons, but here you can see all the rounds from every driver during all three days.

Just for a bit of fun, I’ve taken the best three sectors from each driver on day three of testing, giving them their ultimate lap time.
Yes, i know some just concentrated on long runs, for example, Lewis. And we have no idea on fuel loads. Or tyre choices (sorry, i wasn’t dedicated enough to to sort through them all!) But as i said, it’s a bit of fun.

VER - 29.116 - 39.513 - 23.054 - 1.31.683

MSC - 29.580 - 39,453 - 23.208 - 1.32.241

LEC - 29.509 - 39.618 - 23.229 - 1.32.356

ALO - 29.462 - 39.956 - 23.280 - 1.32.698

RUS - 29.554 - 39.816 - 23.381 - 1.32.751

TSU - 29.622 - 29.942 - 23.313 - 1.32.877

BOT - 29.656 - 40.112 - 23.217 - 1.32.985

PER - 29.653 - 40.179 - 23.273 - 1.33.105

NOR - 29.702 - 40.017 - 23.464 - 1.33.183

VET - 29.724 - 40.560 - 23.537 - 1.33.821

ZHO - 29.812 - 40.609 - 23.421 - 1.33.842

GAS - 29.988 - 40.995 - 23.671 - 1.34.654

SAI - 29.884 - 40.892 - 23.967 - 1.34.743

ALB - 30.016 - 41.300 - 23.631 - 1.34.947

LAT - 30.139 - 41.357 - 23.970 - 1.35.475

STR - 30.246 - 41.616 - 24.248 - 1.36.110

HAM - 30.339 - 41.709 - 24.075 - 1.36.183

MAG -31.369 - 42.852 - 24.395 - 1.38.616

Edit as a typo on Vettel. Now up to date.
Last edited by Motörhead on Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.

F1doc
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Motörhead wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:45 pm
Just for a bit of fun, I’ve taken the best three sectors from each driver on day three of testing, giving them their ultimate lap time.
Yes, i know some just concentrated on long runs, for example, Lewis. And we have no idea on fuel loads. Or tyre choices (sorry, i wasn’t dedicated enough to to sort through them all!) But as i said, it’s a bit of fun.
Thanks for trying to do this. I haven't verified the entire accuracy of this exercise, but I doubt the data as some drivers set faster lap times than these combined best sector times. E.g. Vettel.

silver
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Very interesting data on where every car stood in terms of cornering performance, for ever single corner. This is not just about the min and max speeds for a corner. Rather, the delta in time spent through the corner section. Read the full thread.


Starbuckle486
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Nice.

At a quick glance Merc look fast in the fast corners and slow in the slow corners. Alfa Romeo interestingly the opposite.

Motörhead
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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F1doc wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:47 pm
Motörhead wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:45 pm
Just for a bit of fun, I’ve taken the best three sectors from each driver on day three of testing, giving them their ultimate lap time.
Yes, i know some just concentrated on long runs, for example, Lewis. And we have no idea on fuel loads. Or tyre choices (sorry, i wasn’t dedicated enough to to sort through them all!) But as i said, it’s a bit of fun.
Thanks for trying to do this. I haven't verified the entire accuracy of this exercise, but I doubt the data as some drivers set faster lap times than these combined best sector times. E.g. Vettel.
Thanks, just corrected it.
This is what comes of just using an iPad and no Excel spreadsheet! Pretty sure the rest are all good.

silver
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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Starbuckle486 wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:01 pm
Nice.

At a quick glance Merc look fast in the fast corners and slow in the slow corners. Alfa Romeo interestingly the opposite.
Other than the usual, non-obvious caveats, the obvious ones is the tire compound difference between Alfa and Mercedes. Taking that into account, the picture could likely look different between then and could favor Alfa a bit more.

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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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silver wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:59 pm
Starbuckle486 wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:01 pm
Nice.

At a quick glance Merc look fast in the fast corners and slow in the slow corners. Alfa Romeo interestingly the opposite.
Other than the usual, non-obvious caveats, the obvious ones is the tire compound difference between Alfa and Mercedes. Taking that into account, the picture could likely look different between then and could favor Alfa a bit more.
It doesn't look good for Ferrari if one is to take the information at face value - they're doing even worse than Mercedes on those images.

It's worth noting this in the thread:
Disclaimer
The source of this data is non-official. The telemetry data is sampled at a low rate and has been interpolated for clarity. As a result, the precision and/or integrity of the data cannot be guaranteed.
It's basically a case of "here's some stuff I've done but don't bet your life on it!".
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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silver wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 3:29 pm
Very interesting data on where every car stood in terms of cornering performance, for ever single corner. This is not just about the min and max speeds for a corner. Rather, the delta in time spent through the corner section. Read the full thread.

This doesn't include performance on the straights either

Starbuckle486
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Re: 2022 Winter Testing Part 2: Bahrain International Circuit 10-12th March

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silver wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:59 pm
Starbuckle486 wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:01 pm
Nice.

At a quick glance Merc look fast in the fast corners and slow in the slow corners. Alfa Romeo interestingly the opposite.
Other than the usual, non-obvious caveats, the obvious ones is the tire compound difference between Alfa and Mercedes. Taking that into account, the picture could likely look different between then and could favor Alfa a bit more.
Yes, too many caveats - a soft suspension on the Alfa would give that result for example. And the mini sector times are a mix from several different runs. But, if we allow ourselves to speculate a little bit I'm not totally surprised by the Merc's behaviour. I'm guessing it has a centre of gravity closer to the front than most cars and they would then have to move the centre of pressure closer to the front as well. For example by increasing the load on the front wing - and their front wing looks pretty loaded in the images I've seen. One possible disadvantage of a centre of gravity far forward would be the grip accelerating out of sharp/slow corners. The mini sectors containing such corners does seem a bit slow for the Mercedes.