Red Bull RB8 Renault

[hardingfv32]

Decreased sealing wouldn't stall the diffuser, it would allow more air in from the sides, decreasing the low pressure zone.

Assuming you can get the effect that you propose, I have an issue with the imbalance it creates over the range of turn speeds. You would need a compensation effect to maintain the cars balance in all types of turns.

Brian

[Adrian Newby]

Decreased sealing wouldn't stall the diffuser, it would allow more air in from the sides, decreasing the low pressure zone.

Assuming you can get the effect that you propose, I have an issue with the imbalance it creates over the range of turn speeds. You would need a compensation effect to maintain the cars balance in all types of turns.

Brian

It's called a "driver".

Downforce has always varied with the speed of the car. And if anything this would make it more equal over the speed range, not less.

And also, it would be tuned to dump the great majority of the downforce when going just faster than the fastest turn.

[Gridlock]

If the exhaust gases explode laterally like in some of these diagrams you have to wonder why the bodywork-free cone specified by the regs is just 3deg....

Newey is just phoning it in at this point, RB7 was virtually untouchable so he's been able to spend another off-season optimising things like exhausts that are supposed to be aero neutral and probably a hundred other tiny details that we're not obsessing over. Im off to the bookies I think.

Is the entire tunnel based around it being a suspension member aperture by the way? I don't understand how it's legal otherwise, or if it is legal why eg McLaren don't have a similar solution. Once you have a group of experienced aerodynamicists working with intersecting airflows wouldn't it become obvious?

PS I think some commenters should stick a hand in the exhaust flow of an F1 car at 18,000 rpm, would bring a bit of perspective

[hardingfv32]

Downforce has always varied with the speed of the car. And if anything this would make it more equal over the speed range, not less.

And also, it would be tuned to dump the great majority of the downforce when going just faster than the fastest turn.

Yes, downforce does vary with speed, but the really fast cars maintain balance while the speed changes.

Can you expand on your 'dump' theme. Are you proposing that the flow at the rear under your proposal is non-linear?

Brian

[Holm86]

Ok another try at discussing what holm said, some pages back. Basically that the bridge over the tunnel is in fact hollow, and a duct that escapes somewhere in the back. I then put forward the idea that the fact its slap bang on the exhaust´s path, is heating the air in the duct, for extra benefit. This is the key factor in understanding this layout (in my humble oppinion), but no one is really even discussing it.

Thanks for listening to my idea at leas =)

I guess a double layered diffuser where sidepod air was fed through to blow the trailing edge of the diffuser could extend the diffuser in theory making it larger?

[wesley123]

Downforce has always varied with the speed of the car. And if anything this would make it more equal over the speed range, not less.

And also, it would be tuned to dump the great majority of the downforce when going just faster than the fastest turn.

Yes, downforce does vary with speed, but the really fast cars maintain balance while the speed changes.

You sure about that? I really doubt it that it maintains a constant balance

[Richard]

To avoid duplication and deja vu, the discussion about exhaust blowing are being moved to the exiting exhaust blowing thread.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12046&view=unread#unread

[Adrian Newby]

Downforce has always varied with the speed of the car. And if anything this would make it more equal over the speed range, not less.

And also, it would be tuned to dump the great majority of the downforce when going just faster than the fastest turn.

Yes, downforce does vary with speed, but the really fast cars maintain balance while the speed changes.

Can you expand on your 'dump' theme. Are you proposing that the flow at the rear under your proposal is non-linear?

Brian

As I said, this system would only increase this "balance", not decrease it.

I'm suggesting that the upper/outer corner of the sidepod/bridge could be made in a way that it acts like a splitter, and that it could be shaped/tuned so that most of the flow will stay on top of the sidepod over a certain speed vs. most of the flow going over the side of it (to seal the diffuser) below that speed.

[Gui59]

There are two main objectives for the new package, first is to try to seal the diffuser sides with hot air from the exhaust (we can already roll-out the idea of blowing the brake ducts); second is to keep first effect by feeding the upper side of the diffuser with the most fresh air as possible. This can only be achieve by this design, look as the MCL, they had to do compromise with rear of the side-pods, same for Ferrari were they are feeding (with original design) the brake ducts.

[dren]

There are two main objectives for the new package, first is to try to seal the diffuser sides with hot air from the exhaust (we can already roll-out the idea of blowing the brake ducts); second is to keep first effect by feeding the upper side of the diffuser with the most fresh air as possible. This can only be achieve by this design, look as the MCL, they had to do compromise with rear of the side-pods, same for Ferrari were they are feeding (with original design) the brake ducts.

Ferrari was blowing the side of the diffuser originally along with Mclaren.

[hardingfv32]

If there wasn't a benefit the teams wouldn't do it, so clearly there is a beneficial effect there. Would be interesting to know the exact nature of that effect and how much it affects overall performance.

It is not clear to me what you are describing. As an example, who is using a double deck diffuser at this time. I assume we are talking about something used under the current rules.

Brian

[ParanoiD]

Here is my theory... Could it be that this tunnel works like a chimney?

The exhaust gases flow down the sidepod just over the rear end of the tunnel creating an area of low pressure and thus sucking more air through the tunnel. This could lead to more air on top of the floor plate which could be used to create downforce on e.g. the lower rear wing.

Without the tunnel, I think the exhaust gases would create some sort of barrier and this would lead to less air that could get routet in the direction of the rear wing.

Some shitty picture to "proof" my theory. XD

This is what I thought too...

[raymondu999]

Attached flow is one thing, laminar flow another.

Really? Where does the distinction lie?

Mods feel free to branch this out into another thread if you feel it's better

[Mandrake]

I think we should just agree on what Jeremy Clarkson would use as an explanation for the exhaust solution. "As vettel and webber drive along, magic happens and they go faster!"

[Shakeman]

Rumour has it that RB will be reverting to launch exhaust position for Oz race.