Mercedes AMG F1 W03

[raymondu999]

Surely it wouldn't have been much more difficult to have set up this W-Duct system to work passively

How do you intend to make that happen? i don't believe they could use a switching system as they do now if they were to make it passive; not to mention it would make tuning it much harder due to the different speeds and layouts each circuit has.

[Maelstrom]

^ I don't think that's relevant anymore though - Michael seems to either be driving better or the car suits his style more, either way he seems to be genuinely quicker in the W03 thus far than Nico.
Sorry, won't say anything more about that

Surely it wouldn't have been much more difficult to have set up this W-Duct system to work passively - they would then be able to male use of it in the race not just qualifying, where it obviously seems to be working.
It just seems like a good idea which up until now they haven't really been able to extract the max out of.

The amount of time they have given to developing this and the amount of secrecy surrounding it I couldn't help but wonder if this has not been utilised to the max yet. Maybe they have more developments to come to eke out more performance? Is it possible guys?

[strad]

Ross Brawn has confirmed reports that Mercedes' 2012 F-duct will not be easily copied by rival teams.

We reported on Thursday that while Red Bull and now Ferrari worked quickly to copy Sauber's clever exhaust solution, they are crying foul over the Mercedes F-duct.

Is it because they really believe it breaks the rules, or is the system simply difficult to copy?

Red Bull designer Adrian Newey was quoted by Brazilian O Estado de S.Paulo newspaper in Malaysia: "In regard to the aerodynamic (F) duct of the Mercedes, and sending the airflow from the back to the front, it is necessary to review the entire project."

Mercedes team boss Brawn confirmed: "The opposition is so fierce (because) there's a recognition it's quite difficult to do."

He rejected the rivals' arguments about cost, however, insisting Mercedes' system consists mainly of carbon tubing costing no more than thousands of pounds.

"It's a very simple, cheap system, but not so easy to implement if you haven't integrated it into your car," said the Briton.

"This is at the heart of the frustration of some of our opponents. If someone could put it on their car easily, I promise you we wouldn't be having these discussions."

It emerged this week, however, that despite the FIA having consistently sided with Mercedes on the F-duct issue, Lotus' technical boss James Allison has come up with two new arguments that will be put to Charlie Whiting next week in China.

"We would obviously be extremely disappointed if someone was to take a different view," said Brawn.

"The FIA have been fairly consistent over their position, so we have faith that they'll maintain that consistency."

[bhall]

OK. Work with me here.


(Click to enlarge)

The scoop on the top of the chassis didn't show up until Malaysia, when, coincidentally, someone here on the forum discovered the tubes that link the rear-wing DRS slots to the front wing. I believe this scoop is the sole feed for the blown front wing

I use the following bits from two of our members to reinforce my view.

I heard today from a commenter something about FW-Duct. that guy said " Mercedes didn't use F-duct at Melbourne" and its source is Ross.

(There was no scoop.)

OK fellas, just back from the [Malaysian] GP...

Spoke with a FIA tech officer during scrutineering..

I spoke with him briefly about the secondary effect of the Fduct feeding it to the
front wing

he said thats simply not the case and the media (and speculation) was simply wrong and he couldn't say anything more

It is my contention that the rear-wing DRS slots only activate the blown front wing; they do not feed it. As such, I think that would tend to simplify matters for other teams attempting to copy the solution. However, the following speed-trap figures from Malaysia make me wonder if it's even worthwhile to copy. The front wing, after all, is not a significant source of drag. The numbers bear this out.

Malaysia qualifying speed trap

Code: Select all

1 	Michael Schumacher      312.7
2 	Romain Grosjean         310.8
3 	Nico Rosberg            309.9
4 	Kimi Räikkönen          309.8
5 	Daniel Ricciardo        309.8
6 	Nico Hulkenberg         309.4
7 	Lewis Hamilton          309.1
8 	Jenson Button           308.9
9 	Paul di Resta           308.7
10    Heikki Kovalainen       308.3
11    Jean-Eric Vergne        308.1
12    Vitaly Petrov           307.6
13    Kamui Kobayashi         306.8
14 	Pastor Maldonado        305.1
15 	Bruno Senna             305.0
16 	Sergio Perez            304.0
17 	Fernando Alonso         302.6
18 	Felipe Massa            302.0
19 	Narain Karthikeyan      301.2
20 	Pedro de la Rosa        300.0
21 	Mark Webber             299.0
22 	Sebastian Vettel        298.7
23 	Charles Pic             296.6
24 	Timo Glock              296.6

All of this is to say that I think a mountain is being made of the mole hill known as the Mercedes Daffy Duct. (At least that's the name I'm really pushing.)

[Maelstrom]

All of this is to say that I think a mountain is being made of the mole hill known as the Mercedes Daffy Duct. (At least that's the name I'm really pushing.)

It's quite catchy

[elf341]

Aldo Costa perhaps hinting at the W03 taking a more aggressive exhaust solution soon?

Referring to the jet of high-speed gas emanating from the exhausts near aerodynamic surfaces, Mercedes' Aldo Costa confirmed to Germany's Auto Motor und Sport: "You can't ignore a gift like that."

Source: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... -for-2013/

[Maelstrom]

Aldo Costa perhaps hinting at the W03 taking a more aggressive exhaust solution soon?

Referring to the jet of high-speed gas emanating from the exhausts near aerodynamic surfaces, Mercedes' Aldo Costa confirmed to Germany's Auto Motor und Sport: "You can't ignore a gift like that."

Source: http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/ ... -for-2013/

I'm hoping they introduce it in Mugello and if they can try and get the range of the tyres broader too then by the Spanish GP we should have a strong Mercedes.

[Ferraripilot]

Charlie is also stating in that article that he believes teams which are still blowing the diffuser are seeing about 20% the effect of last year's EBD, so around 5% more total rear downforce is probably a safe bet. What no one has really commented on is how much is being lost from the humps on the sidepods or specific sidepod design necessary to facilitate blowing the diffuser. W03 has the tightest and lowest sidepods on the grid at the moment and I'd hate to see them lose that beatiful shape all for a hunch that the others method of blowing is more beneficial. But of course if it is better and they get a couple tenths out of it, I can definitely see the car being a clear winner then.

[siskue2005]

i think the best compramise for merc would be the mclaren system, which doesnot require a major redesign like the sabuer one and both seems to have similar effect.

[Ferraripilot]

i think the best compramise for merc would be the mclaren system, which doesnot require a major redesign like the sabuer one and both seems to have similar effect.

I completely agree, but the issue I have is I am not completely sold on the systems which attempt to blow the diffusers as I believe they loose a great deal of flow around the sidepods. W03 system simply charges the air headed between the beam wing and diffuser thus making the diffuser operate better, whilst any system blowing the outer edges o the diffuser is in essence making the diffuser larger.They are two different concepts with different end games in mind, but of course each is not without its own set of compromises though. I could be flat wrong, but if it is indeed worth a couple tenths I believe W03 could be a major contender as they very nearly are now.

[Maelstrom]

i think the best compramise for merc would be the mclaren system, which doesnot require a major redesign like the sabuer one and both seems to have similar effect.

Are there any chances that McLaren could switch their exhaust solution too?

[NewtonMeter]

It emerged this week, however, that despite the FIA having consistently sided with Mercedes on the F-duct issue, Lotus' technical boss James Allison has come up with two new arguments that will be put to Charlie Whiting next week in China.

Bloody hell can they whinge?! What was it a couple of years ago (when they were Renault), the engines? They had to be allowed to catch up. Twice!

I swear they're just making sh!t up know to try and get it banned.

It's illegal because it's an f-duct. No?
It's illegal because it's driver operated. Passive? Oh alright then..
It's illegal because you're gonna ban it next year. Oh wait, which way does time go?
It's illegal because you banned our clever ride height control! Unrelatd, ok then.
It's illegal because it's gonna be expensive! Budget cap what?
It's illegal because we didn't think of...nevermind, next!
It's illegal because it's witchcraft! Damn...
It's illegal because I said so, young man! Worth a shot...
It's illegal because they stole it! Oh, right...
It's illegal because it's made of solid mercury! Weight what?
It's illegal because Ross hates kittens! He's got how many?
It's illegal because Germany lost twice! Doesn't that always work?
It's illegal because fck carbon pipes in cars' noses! Why doesn't that make sense?
It's illegal but if I tell you why, I'd have to kill you...

I can rarely abide by the likes McLaren and Ferrari, but at least they took it like a man.

[Raptor22]

+1
McLaren aren't whinging because they have a fast car and I'll bet they have similar system already on their car.
Renault / genii capital / Lotus they continue to show themselves to be one of the most unsportsman like teams on the grid.

Red Bull I confess I am completely shocked at their behaviour since they seem to be suffering most from not invented here alitis

[Ferraripilot]

+1
McLaren aren't whinging because they have a fast car and I'll bet they have similar system already on their car.
Renault / genii capital / Lotus they continue to show themselves to be one of the most unsportsman like teams on the grid.

Red Bull I confess I am completely shocked at their behaviour since they seem to be suffering most from not invented here alitis

Completely agreed. Lotus/RB are really the pots calling the kettle black this time. Hats off to Mclaren and Ferrari.

I've been hearing the W03 system will be worth over half a second in China. Sounds a bit high to me?

[bhall]

Could be. Shanghai isn't exactly an aero-intensive circuit. I think this is one of the handful of circuits where the numerous opportunities for the use of DRS in qualifying can make the Daffy Duct a nice advantage to have.

Come to think of it, China may very well be Mercedes' best chance to take their maiden victory. Remember how farcical all the passing was last year because of DRS?