Red Bull RB9 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
henra
henra
52
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:34 pm

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Looking at these Images one can really see how perfectly the exhaust gases are directed toward the diffuser.
Especially if you compare it to the traces on the McLaren or Sauber where you see significant exhaust traces towards the Center of the car behind the exhausts. Ferrari and Mercedes look better than these two but still not nearly as perfect as this.

Ra8
Ra8
4
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:43 pm

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Image
Image

beelsebob
beelsebob
85
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

SatchelCharge wrote:Are we looking at the "TC-esque" rubber trail, then? Looks more like the result of the bumpy track to me.
If that's a bumpy track, they have no suspension on that car, and would have bugger all grip out of corners. In fact, quite the reverse seems to be true.

User avatar
Redragon
18
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:23 am

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

beelsebob wrote:
SatchelCharge wrote:Are we looking at the "TC-esque" rubber trail, then? Looks more like the result of the bumpy track to me.
If that's a bumpy track, they have no suspension on that car, and would have bugger all grip out of corners. In fact, quite the reverse seems to be true.
Could it be that the tyres got some paint or dust from one of the lines, creating a thin film on a speciphic area of the tyre so at some point the rubber is not in contact totally with the tarmac?

beelsebob
beelsebob
85
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Redragon wrote:
beelsebob wrote:
SatchelCharge wrote:Are we looking at the "TC-esque" rubber trail, then? Looks more like the result of the bumpy track to me.
If that's a bumpy track, they have no suspension on that car, and would have bugger all grip out of corners. In fact, quite the reverse seems to be true.
Could it be that the tyres got some paint or dust from one of the lines, creating a thin film on a speciphic area of the tyre so at some point the rubber is not in contact totally with the tarmac?
That sounds like a decent explanation to me.

myurr
myurr
8
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:58 pm

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Except the size of the bands and the gaps between them seem to fluctuate.

Could it be that the RB just hit the limiter and was a little slow to change into 2nd? Although it could just be bumps as there do look like other more faint tyre marks of a similar nature to the left of the car.

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:31 pm

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

wheel hop

You see it in drag racing all the time. Well pretty much any car can do it.

Michiba
Michiba
4
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:58 am

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Is that related to flat spot which he would have just caused to the tyres by skidding through the turn?

Robbobnob
Robbobnob
33
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 3:03 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

could it be that the tyres outersurface heated up through the relatively long low speed hairpin due to the coanda exhausts, and on acceleration deposited that on the track?
"I continuously go further and further learning about my own limitations, my body limitations, psychological limitations. It's a way of life for me." - Ayrton Senna

cobart
cobart
4
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:04 pm

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

SatchelCharge wrote:Are we looking at the "TC-esque" rubber trail, then? Looks more like the result of the bumpy track to me.
Maybe it is smart differtial ? look at the trails ...left right left right alternately

CBeck113
CBeck113
51
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:43 pm

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

beelsebob wrote:
SatchelCharge wrote:Are we looking at the "TC-esque" rubber trail, then? Looks more like the result of the bumpy track to me.
If that's a bumpy track, they have no suspension on that car, and would have bugger all grip out of corners. In fact, quite the reverse seems to be true.
Have to agree with beelsebob. If you look at the pattern, you can see that the darker marking are alternating from side to side, as if the torque is being transfered from back and forth when wheel spin kicks in - maybe the differential, but is that legal? :?:
“Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!” Monty Python and the Holy Grail

spiritone
spiritone
-3
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:05 pm

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

New member. Been involved in racing for 30 yrs (not F1, stock cars, sprint cars) and i find this forum fascinating. I'll admit i haven't read through all of the pages on the red bull but i am a great admirer of newey.

The thing that i have always wondered about was where the terrific traction off the slower corners came from. I know that the red bull has the best aero which i can see makes them so stable in the fast corners but the overhead shots from canada really emphasized the advantage the red bull has over all the other cars in the slow corners. While the red bull would just jump away from the corners without a hint of wheelspin the ferrari's and the mercs (especially the merc) would squirm around off the hairpin.

Is there a way of having a legal traction control system? Is there a way in the engine mapping that would produce the same effect or smart diff? The pictures bring up some interesting questions.

User avatar
flynfrog
Moderator
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:31 pm

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

Robbobnob wrote:could it be that the tyres outersurface heated up through the relatively long low speed hairpin due to the coanda exhausts, and on acceleration deposited that on the track?
Its more to do to the tire and drivetrain winding up like a spring and unloading.

Huntresa
Huntresa
54
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:33 am

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post


User avatar
WillerZ
11
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 8:46 am

Re: Red Bull RB9 Renault

Post

CBeck113 wrote:
beelsebob wrote:
SatchelCharge wrote:Are we looking at the "TC-esque" rubber trail, then? Looks more like the result of the bumpy track to me.
If that's a bumpy track, they have no suspension on that car, and would have bugger all grip out of corners. In fact, quite the reverse seems to be true.
Have to agree with beelsebob. If you look at the pattern, you can see that the darker marking are alternating from side to side, as if the torque is being transfered from back and forth when wheel spin kicks in - maybe the differential, but is that legal? :?:
Who knows - I was debating this with a friend on twitter last night and looking at the relevant regulations (sections 9.3 and 9.9 of http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... ATIONS.pdf ), but honestly without the "clarifications" which only the teams have they are completely useless for working out what is allowed and what isn't.

A naïve interpretation of the first clause of 9.3:
No car may be equipped with a system or device which is capable of preventing the driven wheels from spinning under power
suggests it is illegal to have brakes which are strong enough to lock the wheels if you stand on both pedals at the same time, but I imagine everyone has those. But does it rule-out things which prevent a driven wheel, not both, from spinning under power?

Similarly a naïve interpretation of 9.9.1:
Any system or device the design of which is capable of transferring or diverting torque from a slower to a faster rotating wheel is not permitted.
suggests that all useful differentials are illegal.

I speculate that they are all allowed to use mechanical limited-slip differentials, or to simulate the effect of an LSD with an electronic diff. I further speculate that RB have found a set of parameters for their e-diff which (a) look reasonable to the FIA scrutineers and (b) basically gives them traction-control one wheel at a time. By alternating which wheel has it at high-enough frequency they get close to the benefit of a full TC system.