2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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dans79
dans79
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:03 pm
Max pushing Ocon might be considered poor sportsmanship, but at least it was off the track out of the car.
Seems my post in response to this magically vanished, but The fact that Max did what he did half a race later is worse!
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DutchDopey
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Wynters wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:41 pm
DutchDopey wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:35 pm
Hamilton was 2 seconds behind Max. Ocon came in between them a little closer to Max than Ham, you do the math. So you are just making things up...
As I pointed out, I'm basing my comments on the video that was linked earlier in the thread so you can actually see where I'm taking my reference from.

I said...
Wynters wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:14 pm
What was the gap to Max when he exited the pits (which was after the second DRS zone so Max had most of a lap to pull away at '2-3 seconds a lap')? It's difficult to tell using the video but I believe it was more than a second at the end of S2 of that first lap. However, it's probably irrelevant...
What am I making up?

Could you please link the evidence that confirms what you are saying and that invalidates my supposition? It would be very useful as we could then use it as a basis to confirm your position that Verstappen was '2-3 seconds faster' on that lap. The gap to Hamilton from Verstappen was almost exactly 2 seconds at the start of lap 42 but can you show where Ocon slotted in between Max and Lewis? This is especially important because Ocon doesn't rejoin until almost the end of S1 and, whilst the gap fluctuates, Hamilton lost over half a second to Verstappen by the end of this lap. It's also worth bearing in mind that even if Ocon comes out within a second of Verstappen, he doesn't get DRS until into Sector 3 when he must still be within a second. There is no "DRS advantage" to gain "immediately".

Based on the FOM feed to Sky during the race:-
At the start of lap 42: Hamilton was +2.0 to Max and Ocon was only +19.5 behind tenth (when he exited the pits and was picked up by the timing screen).
At the start of lap 43: Hamilton was +2.5 to Max and Ocon was only +18.4 behind tenth.
At the start of lap 44: Hamilton was +2.8 to Max and Ocon was only +17.0 behind tenth.

Hamilton's time has no relevance by lap 44 but I've included it for completeness.
I said Max was 2-3 seconds faster in the laps (look plural) before the incident and 0.5-1 second after the incident, for describing the complete race and the unnecessary action of Ocon. As I explained in the comments before, during the rounds after Ocon pitstop the times were different because of the DRS gains and the pushing of Ocon (which would hurt his overall race).

The DRS gains I am talking about apply of course only to the DRS part. When Ocon comes out of the pit in that magical window between Max and Ham :D he immediately after turn 13 got DRS. I can see his DRS getting enabled in the replay data in the app. So there was no gap coming out of the pits like you said.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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sosic2121 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 pm

After that Horner and Marko made same decision they have been doing for last 10 years - someone touched our little brat, how dare they.
ALso, the team messed up by not telling Max to just let Ocon by once they knew he was catching. They should have said "you're not racing him, don't fight him, just let him go". So a failure by them leads them to defend the driver to the hilt. Better would have been to say "we messed up" and behaved like gentlemen. Sadly, that is not the Horner/Marko way.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

dans79
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:20 pm
Seriously, I watch a lot of racing, do a lot of simulator driving, etc. I've competed enough to know sportsmanship in racing. At the scale rc level too mind you.
Your comment here cast serious doubt on your claim of knowing about sportsmanship.
Max pushing Ocon might be considered poor sportsmanship, but at least it was off the track out of the car.


ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:20 pm
but no one would have imagined Ocon, a non contender back marker even trying to race the frontrunner. As a driver who prides himself with racing etiquette, I find Ocon's actions distasteful.
This is where your bias/red mist/whatever is showing through. He wasn't racing max, he was unlapping himself so he could race the cars not that far in-front of max.
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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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TwanV wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:34 pm

Couldn't resist but he isn't there yet: He thanked his Brazilian supporters in Spanish today. =D>
That hardly qualifies as a bar on being a complete driver.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

dans79
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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How about this for a bit of irony, Jos completely took the leader out of race in the 2001 Brazilian grand prix.

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Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Wynters wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:14 pm
Following Max blocking the inside line at the end of the straight, Ocon should've realised that he wasn't going to be 'waved past'.
To be honest, it looks like Max is giving the racing line to Ocon in the way that a back marker might - "here you are, get on with it". Ocon was steaming past Max up until the point that Max decided to go "elbows outs".
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

TwanV
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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dans79, knock it off, we get your angle and we don't care. disqualification of other forum members because they don't agree with you is just a sad thing to do.

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Sieper
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Ocon was on average 1,2 second slower per lap then Max in this race, The only lap (outside of this one lap where he caught Max and took him out) that he was faster then Max was by 0,065 and in that lap Max was in heavy traffic.
Just a personal interest, a Family recreating a WW2 May 1940 Dutch warbird from scratch: https://www.facebook.com/FlyingFokkerD21/

dans79
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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TwanV wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:34 pm
dans79, knock it off, we get your angle and we don't care.
That's interesting, I was just thinking the same thing about your and a few others postings!
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ispano6
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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dans79 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:27 pm
ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:20 pm
Seriously, I watch a lot of racing, do a lot of simulator driving, etc. I've competed enough to know sportsmanship in racing. At the scale rc level too mind you.
Your comment here cast serious doubt on your claim of knowing about sportsmanship.
Max pushing Ocon might be considered poor sportsmanship, but at least it was off the track out of the car.


ispano6 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:20 pm
but no one would have imagined Ocon, a non contender back marker even trying to race the frontrunner. As a driver who prides himself with racing etiquette, I find Ocon's actions distasteful.
This is where your bias/red mist/whatever is showing through. He wasn't racing max, he was unlapping himself so he could race the cars not that far in-front of max.
Bias toward who? The driver ahead in the apex, yes. I believe the FIA have this bias as well, but it's called a regulation.

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DiogoBrand
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Isn't it funny how people will get really angry at people they don't know because they don't agree with their viewpoint on the internet?

I think I'll grab some popcorn.

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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Image

:lol: :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

Just_a_fan
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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RZS10 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:16 pm

why y'all even engage?
Cos it's fun and we're bored... :lol:
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools." oh, and "The Dutch fans are drunk. Maybe"

DutchDopey
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Re: 2018 Brazilian Grand Prix - Interlagos, 9-11 November

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I feel like Fox Mulder against all, the truth is out there ...

(Joking aside and again, I don't believe the conspiracy but I do find it very funny how there are some coincidences which can fuel the conspiracy for others to believe).