2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Alexf1
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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McMika98 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:10 pm
Uk newspaper revealed that Redbull had spent over £300 million this year. The Ginger spice man bagging over 3million himself. Pressure must be building up on the team to deliver. I dont recall seeing such poor chassis from this team this late into the season. The car has no exemplary quality in relation to rivals. Merc own slow corners and fast. Ferrari is so driveable and now cured its slow speed cornering issues and doesnt mind the curbs. Redbull doesnt habe anything that stands out. Every track they previously had an edge last year has disappeared which isnt looking promising for next year.
The only team now with the extreme outboard wing. Surely the aero engineers from the other teams have seen something this team is unwilling to accept.
Think this means all eyes are on 2020 at RB & Honda.

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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f1rules wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:05 pm
definitly! very impressive their S1 when seing their rw
SmallSoldier wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:59 pm
f1rules wrote:looking at the rearwings, i think rb went with to little df this weekend, they ran a noticeable smaller rearwing than merc and fer and mclaren who seemed to be a bit closer this weekend, why they choose so, i dont know
It’s always a compromise... They did so in an effort to have more speed on the back straight, not only for Qualifying, but most importantly, for the race... The fact that they still had impressive times in S1 shows that the RBR still has a lot of efficient downforce embedded in it’s design.


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Someone is performing massive calculations and figuring out how much time they're saving in one sector over how much they're losing in the other sectors by increasing or decreasing wing. The wing setting come from that. That setting, generally calculated between FP2 and Quali, is the setting at which they've minimize the lap time.

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:42 pm
McMika98 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:10 pm
Uk newspaper revealed that Redbull had spent over £300 million this year. The Ginger spice man bagging over 3million himself. Pressure must be building up on the team to deliver. I dont recall seeing such poor chassis from this team this late into the season. The car has no exemplary quality in relation to rivals. Merc own slow corners and fast. Ferrari is so driveable and now cured its slow speed cornering issues and doesnt mind the curbs. Redbull doesnt habe anything that stands out. Every track they previously had an edge last year has disappeared which isnt looking promising for next year.
The only team now with the extreme outboard wing. Surely the aero engineers from the other teams have seen something this team is unwilling to accept.
Think this means all eyes are on 2020 at RB & Honda.
You have proof the problem is Just the chassis ? Cause I'd like to see it .

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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loner wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:18 pm
TNTHead wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:06 pm
A pity we couldn't see the RB performing in the hands of VER during the race. So now we can only guess if he could keep up with Ferrari and Mercedes. If almost 1 minute behind 1st place with Albon is the real picture, that would indeed mean that their development pace is too slow compared to the other frontrunners. Especially with all the fuzz about Suzuka special fuel, extra engines in the pool.

Or do we need to conclude that the current concept of RB (high rake) is simply not the best solution under the current regulations? I am still seeing PU power convergence as just a matter of time, so that leaves the chassis side for biggest improvement possibilities. It might well be that RB understands this for a while and is already full focus on the RB16 with a major change in design philosophy?
its simple really ,Mercs with their PU for 6 years now,RBR first year with new PU there is almost an ocean of potentials from a PU designed for only them.
After the PU has been out for a couple of years the design changes are minimal with regards to "designed for them". To make a major change now would cause a ton of reliability issues. So realy to design the car around the PU becomes fairly easy and all the teams are doing that. Any new updates are the kind that all teams can take advantage of.

McMika98
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:46 pm
Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:42 pm

Think this means all eyes are on 2020 at RB & Honda.
You have proof the problem is Just the chassis ? Cause I'd like to see it .
The 2020 car will be the same as this year as there is no reg changes so dont expect to close the gap all of a sudden.

As for the proof. Just look at the number of podiums this year against last year. The car was ahead of Ferrari at beginning of year and now comfortably behind. Engine defecit isnt as bad as last year as shown by performances in Spa, Austria, Uk. Quali performances on chassis tracks like Monaco, Singapore and Hungary are further proof.

McMika98
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:43 pm

definitly! very impressive their S1 when seing their rw
Someone is performing massive calculations and figuring out how much time they're saving in one sector over how much they're losing in the other sectors by increasing or decreasing wing. The wing setting come from that. That setting, generally calculated between FP2 and Quali, is the setting at which they've minimize the lap time.
Rb always get more from their diffuser. But look at the S3 times which is just 17 seconds and only has a chichane, rest is flat out. They lost out to the top teams and were doing same times as midfield.

Bill
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Bullshit Redbull has never been quicker than Ferrari except in Hungary and Monaco its Max who have been performing miracles with the car

marvin78
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Ok. To stay at your language: That someone is capable of outdriving the car ist BS and it was BS ever since. Calling something BS and then talking about miracles...no words for that.

Bill
Bill
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Miracles it's a figure of speech you shouldn't take it literally its just meant Max did we'll considering the equipment he has and qualifying position relative to Ferrari boys

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:46 pm
You have proof the problem is Just the chassis ? Cause I'd like to see it .
Do you have proof the problem is also the engine ? Cause I'd like to see it .

Polite
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Alexf1 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:42 pm
McMika98 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:10 pm
Uk newspaper revealed that Redbull had spent over £300 million this year. The Ginger spice man bagging over 3million himself. Pressure must be building up on the team to deliver. I dont recall seeing such poor chassis from this team this late into the season. The car has no exemplary quality in relation to rivals. Merc own slow corners and fast. Ferrari is so driveable and now cured its slow speed cornering issues and doesnt mind the curbs. Redbull doesnt habe anything that stands out. Every track they previously had an edge last year has disappeared which isnt looking promising for next year.
The only team now with the extreme outboard wing. Surely the aero engineers from the other teams have seen something this team is unwilling to accept.
Think this means all eyes are on 2020 at RB & Honda.
i think those millions have been spent before the cost cap is applied. Also Ferrari and Mercedes did that: Ferrari bought a brand new simulator.. for istance. So maybe that money doesnt belong to the Rbr15.

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Wouter
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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I deleted this post.

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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McMika98 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:04 am
diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:43 pm

definitly! very impressive their S1 when seing their rw
Someone is performing massive calculations and figuring out how much time they're saving in one sector over how much they're losing in the other sectors by increasing or decreasing wing. The wing setting come from that. That setting, generally calculated between FP2 and Quali, is the setting at which they've minimize the lap time.
Rb always get more from their diffuser. But look at the S3 times which is just 17 seconds and only has a chichane, rest is flat out. They lost out to the top teams and were doing same times as midfield.
You understand what calculated means?

Yes they would have had a better S3 time but at the cost of a slower overall lap time. Presuming they got their calculations right, Which I do. They've been doing it for some time.

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loner
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:09 pm
After the PU has been out for a couple of years the design changes are minimal with regards to "designed for them". To make a major change now would cause a ton of reliability issues. So realy to design the car around the PU becomes fairly easy and all the teams are doing that. Any new updates are the kind that all teams can take advantage of.
lets get to the point
your beloved Mclaren in 2018 first year with Renault achieved 6th with 62 points but in 2019 they are 4th with 111 and 4 races yet to run, RBR is a guru car builder they will fix their problems, iam struggle to understand why people call RBR current concept is a failure when after introducing a new FW in Austria they were very competitive until summer break
i think their concept can be mega again and yes i think its because 2 factors changing the PU manufacturer and the new regulations but they will restore their efficient car soon, they delayed their new FW in Suzuka its good as long they thought it won't make big different perhaps it will debut in Mexico after being revised.
para bellum.

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diffuser
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Re: 2019 Aston Martin Red Bull Racing - Honda F1 Team

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Wouter wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:22 am
diffuser wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:46 pm
You have proof the problem is Just the chassis ? Cause I'd like to see it .
Do you have proof the problem is also the engine ? Cause I'd like to see it .
I'm not claiming the problem is the PU. Yet you are claiming the problem is the chassis.

Although I have my suspicions that Honda are not getting as much electrical power from the MGU-H as Merc and Ferrari. It is hard to proove. I didn't see Merc or Ferrari lights flash ever in S3. Which I could consider evidence. I know better. They could be "not deploying" elsewhere. I have not had a camera following them around for a full lap to be able to time it.