Many people here praised Gasly and Sainz after the race, but I haven't noticed anyone commenting on Stroll's success
Is the 3rd place a success or a failure, after he lucked into pole position start?
Luck so often comes from putting the groundwork in and being in a position to benefit from it.selvam_e2002 wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 12:25Gazly and Stroll -- Pure luck.
Sainz and Noris -- Actual result.
Except in this case where Gasly was in the position to benefit only because of poor strategy/performance...Big Tea wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 12:27Luck so often comes from putting the groundwork in and being in a position to benefit from it.selvam_e2002 wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 12:25Gazly and Stroll -- Pure luck.
Sainz and Noris -- Actual result.
That is a bit jumping to a conclusion that isn't there. If there was a real problem with, lets say, marshals laying in the pitlane entry or something like that, they would have red flagged it right away with a direct voice message to all teams to park on the grid.Phil wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 13:50I have to say, I don't "mind" Hamilton losing a win like this (and considering the WDC position he is currently in), however, I must say I find it a bit baffling that a decision to close the pitlane for the essentially safety reasons (which it always is), is simply a few markers on the outside of a corner and a bulletin message. I would assume and hope that something that is communicated for safety reasons to be highlighted appropriately that there is little margin for error, because, there could be potential lives at stake (of marshals there etc).
Yes, but that’s why the flags, boards, etc exists... So that drivers don’t have to rely on the radio. In this case, regardless of how hidden the information was, the boards where there and Hamilton didn’t paid attention, as simple as that... Is his responsibility to ensure he is looking at the boards / Marshall’s during the racePhil wrote:I have to say, I don't "mind" Hamilton losing a win like this (and considering the WDC position he is currently in), however, I must say I find it a bit baffling that a decision to close the pitlane for the essentially safety reasons (which it always is), is simply a few markers on the outside of a corner and a bulletin message. I would assume and hope that something that is communicated for safety reasons to be highlighted appropriately that there is little margin for error, because, there could be potential lives at stake (of marshals there etc).
LOLPlatinumZealot wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 15:43This is blotch on Massis's record that is for sure. Definitely could be handled better.
This is scandalous :matt_b wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 13:34They gave Lewis and Giovinazzi the strongest penalty available, of course if it was wet and they only had a few seconds to react I would presume they would've got the same 5 second time penalty Danny Ric got in Brazil 2016 for entering the pit lane when it was closed, we will never know though.Big Tea wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 13:03Just a little additional to the pit lane incident. Irrespective of the right or wrong of of Hamilton being given a penalty, as it involved people being on the track and a car not obeying the command ( which should have been accompanied by double waved yellow to my mind) there has to be a heavy penalty. It can not be reduced or rescinded.
I half expected disqualification
Yes, it's pretty clear the safer option when you close the pit lane is a VSC with Magnussen's car. It's also the fairer option by far.El Scorchio wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 18:41Marshalls weren't and didn't need to be actually on track to get Magnussen's car pushed down the grass and into the pit lane. Clearly it's not a hard and fast rule anyway as demonstrated in the F2 incident. Whether that's judged right or wrong, the same powers that be let it happen so why is it OK in one series and not the other. In addition I thought double waved yellow means 'marshalls on track be prepared to stop' and doesn't have to be necessarily accompanied by a safety car.Fulcrum wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 18:21Marshals were on track, it's really pretty straight forward, whether you deem it to be appropriate or otherwise.El Scorchio wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 16:30
Yes, I agree with that- this particular incident should be safety car- especially in line with protocols in F1 this season, but the point is that this scenario proves VSC is absolutely available this season so why is the safety car being used in F1 for incidents that are far far less dangerous and far more trivial than this? You have to say that on this evidence the Magnussen thing should/could have absolutely been treated with VSC in F2, which in my view is the appropriate measure considering the situation of the race and the position of Magnussen's car and relative risk. So why was it deemed necessary to use full safety car there? IMO the only rational reasoning can be that VSC wasn't available, which it clearly is. There have been several other incidents this season when full SC has been deployed where in the past it wouldn't have and countless people on race threads are rightly asking why it's necessary? Why hasn't there been a SINGLE instance of VSC in an F1 Grand Prix this year? It just doesn't add up to me.
I can't comment on all other instances of safety car usage. It wouldn't surprise me to learn SC has been used more readily than VSC, as it is a lot easier to argue in hindsight without a time constraint how to respond in the heat of the moment. Given this is not the case, moving straight to SC is the risk averse approach, the safety first approach, even if it is at times not necessary.
It's not a case of SC being used more frequently in comparison- VSC hasn't been used once in a race this season unless someone can specifically recall otherwise- and there's been no reason given for this on safety grounds or being risk averse, where it would have been VSC in the past. It feels like there's been an unspoken change in approach and it just doesn't add up to me.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one because it's clear we see it a bit differently!
Don't know about scandalous, but yes it does show Masi as continuing to be not quite consistent. Almost cries for another 'explainer' of the decision that only explains what their reasoning was, but not why that reasoning this time was different from another timekomninosm wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 20:11This is scandalous :matt_b wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 13:34They gave Lewis and Giovinazzi the strongest penalty available, of course if it was wet and they only had a few seconds to react I would presume they would've got the same 5 second time penalty Danny Ric got in Brazil 2016 for entering the pit lane when it was closed, we will never know though.Big Tea wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 13:03Just a little additional to the pit lane incident. Irrespective of the right or wrong of of Hamilton being given a penalty, as it involved people being on the track and a car not obeying the command ( which should have been accompanied by double waved yellow to my mind) there has to be a heavy penalty. It can not be reduced or rescinded.
I half expected disqualification
https://www.racefans.net/2016-f1-season ... ex/#inv720
20. Brazil Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull R Entered a closed pit entry Five-second time penalty Car 3 entered the pit entry when it was closed. The stewards took into consideration the limited visibility of the light panel indicating the pit entry was closed, the very short time the driver may have had to see it, as well as the few seconds the team had to react to the message sent on the official messaging system.
Interesting. Apparently they cannot serve a time penalty during a safety car so that's why they went in to serve it immediately.Just_a_fan wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 22:48Not sure if this has been posted already, but here's Hamilton's red flag radio comms. Starts by asking if Leclerc is ok on approach to the pits, goes through the discussion about the best time to take the penalty. Ends with the pull out of the pit lane.
https://youtu.be/pMDAV7jX4Vg
Also, radio comms from the weekend in general.
https://youtu.be/iAQNJ-Ah0_g
On second thought, that RIC incident was the reason they made this penalty standardized. I still think the lack of VSC was scandalous though and also the lack of proper messaging for Closed Pit Lane, with lights on track on the INSIDE of the curb and message on pit entry and radio message.bosyber wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 20:58Don't know about scandalous, but yes it does show Masi as continuing to be not quite consistent. Almost cries for another 'explainer' of the decision that only explains what their reasoning was, but not why that reasoning this time was different from another timekomninosm wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 20:11This is scandalous :matt_b wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 13:34
They gave Lewis and Giovinazzi the strongest penalty available, of course if it was wet and they only had a few seconds to react I would presume they would've got the same 5 second time penalty Danny Ric got in Brazil 2016 for entering the pit lane when it was closed, we will never know though.
https://www.racefans.net/2016-f1-season ... ex/#inv720
20. Brazil Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull R Entered a closed pit entry Five-second time penalty Car 3 entered the pit entry when it was closed. The stewards took into consideration the limited visibility of the light panel indicating the pit entry was closed, the very short time the driver may have had to see it, as well as the few seconds the team had to react to the message sent on the official messaging system.
Why do you need Bottas for that? There's Binotto!sosic2121 wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 12:02I agree with this. But couple of times when Lewis dropped the ball, he would step up and keep Ferraris from winning.Schuttelberg wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 19:00Yes I am talking about Bottas. I think Felipe was a feisty little character and while he was no Hamilton, he wasn't a pu$$y! Obviously, I'm not talking about the likes of Badoer or Yammmamoto or Ide but I don't think I've seen a worse driver than Bottas in a championship capable car and he's the worst by some margin. Obviously, he'll win another couple of races this year but he is not the foot nail of Rosberg and let's not even talk about Hamilton even though Lewis is Lewis and being his team mate is very hard.NathanOlder wrote: ↑07 Sep 2020, 14:42
Thats harsh on Massa, or please tell me your not talking about Bottas ? If Bottas is the worst F1 driver you have seen, you clearly have only watched the 2 Mercedes cars this year and no other car in F1 ever. Come on man , be serious.
Maybe he has No.2 in his contract. And he's doing a perfect job.