[MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

Post here information about your own engineering projects, including but not limited to building your own car or designing a virtual car through CAD.
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LVDH
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Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:23 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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jjn9128 wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:19 am
Question. What is being done about the front wheel arch, rear wheel deflector and winglets, and wheel covers? Will we get the option to make our own? I quite like the idea of the front arch and rear deflector being free!
I am not sure, what to do about them. The goal is always to have rules that we can easily check. And I am not sure how this would be done with these parts. Suggestions are welcome.

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jjn9128
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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LVDH wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:21 am
I am not sure, what to do about them. The goal is always to have rules that we can easily check. And I am not sure how this would be done with these parts. Suggestions are welcome.
Just add some new legality boxes near the wheels? I could suggest some boxes with the wheels I use if you like? These parts would be wheel fixed reference rather than car fixed - I'm not sure how that would work with the rake settings?
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

MaccaRacing
MaccaRacing
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 8:22 pm

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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RW regulation box done! Solidworks tells me that I can export it to STEP AP203 and AP214 formats.. which one is the right one? then can I send you the file by email?

MaccaRacing
MaccaRacing
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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I think I missed something about Z0 plane... the new reg box seems way too high with respect to the old one..

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LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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MaccaRacing wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:03 am
RW regulation box done! Solidworks tells me that I can export it to STEP AP203 and AP214 formats.. which one is the right one? then can I send you the file by email?
Just try both out, maybe give them a distinct name, so I can feed back which worked. I assume, (packed) the files are pretty small, so yes, you can send them through email.

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LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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I have just received all volumes. A very big thank you to the generous mystery CAD donator. From a very first look, they seem to be very good, the parts even have the FIA names in them!

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LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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OK, I now also have the files from MaccaRacing. Both formats work and they both are the exact geometry of the file, received earlier. This helps me verify that everything is OK. As I also have parts from yesterday, I think this big present, I got handed over today, can be considered as good. I will work and make sure to get everything done this week.
  • Clean up CAD files
  • Export them to stl
  • Have MFlow work with all these exported files
  • Check if the rake, and possibly ride height work for MVRC in MFLOW
  • General check of CFD model
  • Publish rules on Homepage
  • Open registration for MVRC 2021!

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CAEdevice
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Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:33 pm
Location: Erba, Italy

Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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Hi, here is the first attempt to model a 2022 wheel.

Image

Consider that in our simulations wheels are not "static" and the effects of downforce deform the rubber and make it a bit different from an almost perfect cylinder.
The modeling of the deformation is not accurate (it will never be very accurate, but in this case it is a pure guess).

I have doubts about the tyre width: I was convinced that front tyres in 2022 should be narrower than in 2021, but from the official rules it looks like they preserved about the same width (can anyone confirm that?).
On the contrary the diameter increased a bit.

I also have doubts about the orientation of the suspensions arms section: F1 rules allow a small angle of incidence, but each teams uses different angles. What about our cars? Neutral profile? Small positive incidence?

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jjn9128
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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CAEdevice wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:09 pm
Hi, here is the first attempt to model a 2022 wheel.

https://www.caedevice.net/SERVER/MVRC/2 ... 210411.jpg

Consider that in our simulations wheels are not "static" and the effects of downforce deform the rubber and make it a bit different from an almost perfect cylinder.
The modeling of the deformation is not accurate (it will never be very accurate, but in this case it is a pure guess).

I have doubts about the tyre width: I was convinced that front tyres in 2022 should be narrower than in 2021, but from the official rules it looks like they preserved about the same width (can anyone confirm that?).
On the contrary the diameter increased a bit.

I also have doubts about the orientation of the suspensions arms section: F1 rules allow a small angle of incidence, but each teams uses different angles. What about our cars? Neutral profile? Small positive incidence?
Fronts are 270mm tread/~350mm section width, rears are 405mm tread/~455mm section, tyres are 725mm diameter. Front suspension arms could/should be inclined so they are nose down because of the front wing wake, rules say up to 10deg nose down. Personally I never bother with tyre squish unless I know the actual geometry of the tyre - it's inaccurate regardless.

2022 cars will have the rotating wheel covers which IMO should be used to reduce the mesh count inside the wheel.
#aerogandalf
"There is one big friend. It is downforce. And once you have this it’s a big mate and it’s helping a lot." Robert Kubica

LegendaryM
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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There is this PhD thesis with geometry from a scanned wind-tunnel tyre I believe, though its a few years out of date: https://core.ac.uk/display/16281043 fig 4.5

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CAEdevice
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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Thanks LegendaryM, sounds interesting.

In the MVRC case I prefer a simplified approach because each car will have different downforce and it would be too complicated and iterative (despite not impossible) to parametrically adapt the deformed tyre geometry.

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LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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No deformed tires please. Also please do not cut them off at the ground plane. It is better for the plane to intersect the geometry than to have a plane that only touches, or worse, is 1e-6m below the tire contact patch.

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CAEdevice
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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Ok , I can set to flatted fapart of the deformed tyre 1mm below the ground l, but if you prefer not deformed tyre at all, no problem, it will be even easier to model.

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yinlad
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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Will there be a 'standard' for creating meshes this year? I suspect there's a lot of performance in mesh optimisation and it doesn't really feel like that's what this competition is supposed to be about

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LVDH
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Re: [MVRC] Mantium Virtual Racecar Challenge 2020 (Grand Prix Cars)

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CAEdevice wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:38 am
Ok , I can set to flatted fapart of the deformed tyre 1mm below the ground l, but if you prefer not deformed tyre at all, no problem, it will be even easier to model.
A little bit is ok and actually very good as a completely round tire would be a bit unrealistic, but the CFD domain should define the plane that cuts the wheel off.


yinlad wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:10 am
Will there be a 'standard' for creating meshes this year? I suspect there's a lot of performance in mesh optimisation and it doesn't really feel like that's what this competition is supposed to be about
For the official simulations a pre-defined template in MFlow is used. To develop your car you are welcome to use what ever settings you like. You should just make sure that the results of your own simulations correlate well with the official ones.