Red Bull RB9 Renault

[Cam]

I'm scared to offer anything on this subject...... to add something else in - looking at this video:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVJsFtUL72o[/youtube]
it appears to me the 'steps' appear after that horizontal solid black line - could that be a join in the cement or some other raised or lowered section that causes the car to 'bounce'?

Just another opinion.

[wesley123]

Its seems wesley 123 is the resident expert on this forum. I shall bow to you superior intellect and go back to working on my race cars.

what the hell?

[Cam]

Wait, where is the visual confirmation of TC? You mean the one with tire marks, which is something Tcprevents? Kinda proves it isnt TC right?

While I agree, TC should prevent any tyre marks, I think the other side of the fence are perhaps suggesting it's 'kicking in' - which is what the footage is showing. So the tyres spin, leaving a solid black mark, then the 'TC' starts and limits the wheel spin - causing the steps.

[flynfrog]

Understanding Wheel hop

http://www.mc2racing.com/tech/20061012a/

1.) Acceleration begins with good grip.
2.) The wheels move forward, toe changes, and available grip is reduced. Wheelspin occurs.
3.) During wheelspin, acceleration is very small. The wheels move back again, toe changes back, and the tire regains grip.
4.) Acceleration begins again, and the process repeats itself.

Limited-slip differentials will also not prevent wheel hop. They may increase the acceleration threshold at which wheel hop occurs (much like installing race tires), but once again an increase in horsepower will eventually reintroduce the problem.

its either that or mysterious traction control that defies the detection on telemetry that is monitored by the FIA

[flynfrog]

Forget about the pictures and think about how much better RBR is off slow corners. Nobody seems to have the answer for that. Lets have a discussion about that.

suspension and areo settings the compromise high speed for low speed acceleration possibly different gear ratios too.

[irang]

suspension and areo settings the compromise high speed for low speed acceleration possibly different gear ratios too.

+1

Besides what about Brawn's explanation that RB's tunnel coanda solution is superior to McLaren solution at corner exit (especially slow ones), on-throttle? Another one, regarding tyre usage since RB9 is more front limited, maybe their drivers can afford to push closer to the car's maximum performance level at slow corner exits than in other situations?
/ Hope those don't sound too dumb

[Jackles-UK]

I can't believe that we have had 3 pages of "is there some kind of Traction Control fitted to the RBR" speculation. If some form of TC had been fitted then the system would surely have not allowed the wheels to spin in such a fashion at all rather than in an on/off way that Webber did in Canada?

Let me put it to you this way - if you pull away in a bog-standard road car with too much right foot the cars drive-wheels (front or rear depending on your budget!!) will spin almost unopposed initially then, as your ground speed increases and the torque and available tyre grip starts to equalise with your wheel speed the car will grip & release alternatively (rather than a linear progression) as the cars velocity starts to get close to that of the wheel speed (this is the 'judder' felt while behind the wheel) before the available grip finally matches the velocity of the vehicle and the car then pulls away normally. This is a mixture of what can only be expected of tyre grip (not necessarily a linear correlation) and the wheel hop/driveline oscillation & bounce already discussed by a variety of parties.

It's not that I think that RB are 100% above board around the car; I just think that (much like the moon landing conspiracies) if their rival teams thought something was going on they would have appealed WAY before we had heard about it!!

[spiritone]

What would the teams appeal? Wouldn't they have to specify what they think RBR was doing?

[Hobbs04]

Go to beginning of Canadian gp, watch the burn outs prior to the starting grid. Webbers car outs down the same oscillations but no one else does....

[flynfrog]

Go to beginning of Canadian gp, watch the burn outs prior to the starting grid. Webbers car outs down the same oscillations but no one else does....

So? That just means that the condition is repeatable. No other car on the grid has the same axle length, wheel choice, suspension setup ect.

[djos]

This is ridiculous!

To the TC conspiracy theorists, go drive a powerful car equipped with a proper LSD and you'll notice a little something called axel tramp!

[djos]

Dbl post

[thisisatest]

If they do not have tc then someone explain how they get their cars to hookup out of slow corners with hardly a wisp of wheelspin? They then must have a much superior suspension system or a much better engine map then any team, and nobody has been able to find out what gives.

renault has worked the hardest on delivering very smooth, predictable, advantageous throttle maps. red bull likely pushes them farther and harder than other renault-engined teams.
also, i believe that webber and (especially)vettel dive deeper into slow turns, slow more, then turn sharper, before accelerating in a straighter line, compared to most other drivers. i believe this is conscious and deliberate, and coached by the team because their data shows it will be faster. i believe other teams dont follow red bull's lead because their analysis is not quite as refined, and due to car setup differences, it may simply not be beneficial for them.
the slow corners i am referring to precede long straights. they dont do it in every slow corner, obviously.

[rssh]

I'm scared to offer anything on this subject...... to add something else in - looking at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVJsFtUL72o
it appears to me the 'steps' appear after that horizontal solid black line - could that be a join in the cement or some other raised or lowered section that causes the car to 'bounce'?

Just another opinion.

All I can see is that the place were webber accelerated wasn't the actual racing line but the racing line is on the left after hair-pin and due to dust dirt the wheels might have found traction and slipped with more dust when Webber stomped on the gas (traction - slip -traction -slip).

[Godius]

also, i believe that webber and (especially)vettel dive deeper into slow turns, slow more, then turn sharper, before accelerating in a straighter line, compared to most other drivers. i believe this is conscious and deliberate, and coached by the team because their data shows it will be faster. i believe other teams dont follow red bull's lead because their analysis is not quite as refined, and due to car setup differences, it may simply not be beneficial for them.
the slow corners i am referring to precede long straights. they dont do it in every slow corner, obviously.

I've noticed that too, drivers with renault engines prefer to use this driving style. You could also see the caterham diving deep into the corner to straighten the car up for better traction out of the hairpin.