Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
jason.parker.86
jason.parker.86
1
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 21:57

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

He simply gets hit, sparked out and his body relaxes and picks up speed. Maybe with his foot on both brake and throttle because of the skid marks

User avatar
Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

I think it does. That's what is leaving me to believe more damage was done by the steering wheel than the spring. He was obviously very very dazed after he regained conciousness and it probably led to him not bracing for the impact.

The FOZ
The FOZ
0
Joined: 07 Feb 2008, 23:04
Location: Winterpeg, Canada

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

ringo wrote:A redesign on the helmets is the next most logical thing; i am thinking of bullet proof visors and an extended forehead on the helmet. The extended part would be made of impact energy absorbing material, something more pliant than what the rest of the helmet is made of.

i would suggest heart rate monitors in the car and eye movement detectors, this way the team will know how their driver is doing and they should be able to wirelessly stop the car in the event of an accident. This would be the only time the teams would have any feedback control of the car.
The EPS foam in helmets is amongst the best materials available in terms of energy absorption across a wide temperature range.

As I stated in the discussion about Surtees, it wouldn't take another inch or two of EPS to have absorbed the impact energy, it would have taken several inches. Several feet, in the case of Surtees. At which point, the argument is, ok, now we have this monstrous helmet that's more likely to get caught on things, are we really better off?

The notion of any system to stop the car can be put aside right now. I can think of far too many instances of "helpful" systems failing in the past season or two alone; putting such a system on the car's brakes would be asking for serious trouble. Again, would we be better off with a system like that? Not in my view.

User avatar
Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

The FOZ wrote: The EPS foam in helmets is amongst the best materials available in terms of energy absorption across a wide temperature range.

As I stated in the discussion about Surtees, it wouldn't take another inch or two of EPS to have absorbed the impact energy, it would have taken several inches. Several feet, in the case of Surtees. At which point, the argument is, ok, now we have this monstrous helmet that's more likely to get caught on things, are we really better off?

The notion of any system to stop the car can be put aside right now. I can think of far too many instances of "helpful" systems failing in the past season or two alone; putting such a system on the car's brakes would be asking for serious trouble. Again, would we be better off with a system like that? Not in my view.
Remember everyone laughing at Ferrari when they had the lights system and it so gloriously failed them so many times? There is a point where you start to make thing too complicated, and any restraining system to stop a car can, and will malfunction and cause more trouble than it's worth. There is probably nothing anyone could have done now, or in the past and future that would prevent this without making another area of driver safety more risky. I don't know how to stop this, there may be no way to do it.

jason.parker.86
jason.parker.86
1
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 21:57

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

Perhaps the clearest video available:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ltCJXSLuw[/youtube]

Skip to about 1.46 - clearly see car telematary!

ESPImperium
ESPImperium
64
Joined: 06 Apr 2008, 00:08
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

I shure hope that Massa gets well soon. It was another freak accedent. I shure hope he races again!!!

But heres a question, if massa cant race for the rest of the season, who will race in the 3 car cor Ferrari??? Gene, Badoer, Schumacher, Kubica or Alonso???

timbo
timbo
111
Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

I think visor can be strengthen, or better yet, a two visors employed - light inside one, probably vented and fixed to hold small fragments and the thicker outer one.

mpbx3003
mpbx3003
0
Joined: 25 Jul 2009, 22:55

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

The helmet going forward like that is what made me so nervous about the report of fracture to the base of the skull. The angle of the crash is exactly right for a Basal Skull Fracture, which, as I said, is seriously career-threatening at best.

User avatar
Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

jason.parker.86 wrote:He simply gets hit, sparked out and his body relaxes and picks up speed. Maybe with his foot on both brake and throttle because of the skid marks
In that video I posted the telemetry thingy shows right after impact that both throttle and brake are being pushed to the maximum till the impact with the tires.

Would the car automatically go into neutral when it hits something?

User avatar
Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

autosport wrote:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77281

Q. Can you tell us what happened with your rear suspension in that session?

Rubens Barrichello: I lost the whole central damper of the car. The car this morning had a lot of fuel and it felt quite good. This afternoon it felt a bit strange, vertically the car was moving a bit. And we suspected since the beginning of qualifying that it was starting to go. Eventually it went completely on that lap, because I had a lap of traffic which I had to abort and that lap, as soon as I braked for Turn 1, it was very, very bad. I still did an okay time through sector one, but when I went into Turn 3 I felt the rear collapse.

I had no control over the rear suspension; it was like it was solid. It was then that I radioed and said I was coming in. It felt like I lost a big chunk of ride height because the car was touching the ground, and on the TV from the videos it looks like that was what went into Felipe's head. The whole thing just went bang.

Q. Did the thing break or did it just come undone?

RB: No, it broke.
They should be banned from this event immediately!!! :evil:

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
556
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

The FOZ wrote:
ringo wrote:A redesign on the helmets is the next most logical thing; i am thinking of bullet proof visors and an extended forehead on the helmet. The extended part would be made of impact energy absorbing material, something more pliant than what the rest of the helmet is made of.

i would suggest heart rate monitors in the car and eye movement detectors, this way the team will know how their driver is doing and they should be able to wirelessly stop the car in the event of an accident. This would be the only time the teams would have any feedback control of the car.
The EPS foam in helmets is amongst the best materials available in terms of energy absorption across a wide temperature range.

As I stated in the discussion about Surtees, it wouldn't take another inch or two of EPS to have absorbed the impact energy, it would have taken several inches. Several feet, in the case of Surtees. At which point, the argument is, ok, now we have this monstrous helmet that's more likely to get caught on things, are we really better off?

The notion of any system to stop the car can be put aside right now. I can think of far too many instances of "helpful" systems failing in the past season or two alone; putting such a system on the car's brakes would be asking for serious trouble. Again, would we be better off with a system like that? Not in my view.

I think what killed Surtees was not like in Massa's case.. Surtees case was more like a piano dropping on your head. No matter how big the helmet is You spinal cord is going to get damaged because of the downward direction of the load in a situation like that.

In Massa's case I surely think more material could have helped somewhat becuase his neck wasn't taking the load, it was taken by the helmet itself. Which was shattered and impacted into his skull.

So that design could have made a difference. The same for the "Knight helmet" design.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

☄️ Myth of the five suns. ☄️

☀️☀️☀️☀️☀️
LxVxFxHxN

mpbx3003
mpbx3003
0
Joined: 25 Jul 2009, 22:55

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

I agree, Brawn GP should be punished severely for this. It would have been one thing had they had a minor suspicion there was something wrong with the suspension, but it sounds as if they knew this exact failure was going to happen. Given that I've never heard of this sort of failure, it seems odd they would have known about the nature of the problem.

jason.parker.86
jason.parker.86
1
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 21:57

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

Would the car automatically go into neutral when it hits something?
I doubt it, but I suspect he was hitting the rev limiter! I dont really know how Massa drives, but would he use one foot for the brake and one for the throttle?

Just seems strange that with him being asleep behind the wheel his foot would have
enough pressure behind it to depress the brake and throttle?

Either way I think had that been at any other part of the race track he would be dead or even worse killed another driver! What would happen if he was coming down the straight at 250mph and went head first into the wall!!!

jonathan189
jonathan189
0
Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 14:51

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

jason.parker.86 wrote: Either way I think had that been at any other part of the race track he would be dead or even worse killed another driver! What would happen if he was coming down the straight at 250mph and went head first into the wall!!!
He is extremely lucky to be alive right now given the nature of the debris strike -- we know that much. It seems he was knocked out cold at the wheel.

It's absolutely imperative that the causes of the spring's release on to the track are investigated and measures taken to make it impossible in future. Yes, it was an unlucky "freak" accident, but a 1kg spring should never have been bouncing around an F1 circuit at head height!

tommylommykins
tommylommykins
-1
Joined: 12 May 2009, 22:14

Re: Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

Post

@jason.parker.86: The car didn't speed up, I think: Check the G-meter.... That indicates he is slowing down