Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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Big Tea
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Sieper wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:37 pm
Big Tea wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:26 pm
Sieper wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:51 am


But with the rest they are not on the limit, so why take it early?
Because its 'life' will start from this week. They can be more flexible about changing it in future and in the 'extra time' gained there may be a development that would not have been included in an earlier engine change.

Nothing is for nothing, but getting back up to 10th place here is about as close as it gets.
They wont get an extra penalty for taking another ICE as they are on 2 used, and you can take 3. They wont be dropped from 10 to 20 if they take an extra ICE. it will just mean they are on the limit now already instead of later.
You are quite right, my apologies, I got it wrong.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.

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Sieper
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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no worries, I think the question facing Ferrari is revert to turbo 1 or take unit 4. 10 places is quite a big drop for just one component. It is all a rather unlucky situation regarding that.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Sieper wrote:no worries, I think the question facing Ferrari is revert to turbo 1 or take unit 4. 10 places is quite a big drop for just one component. It is all a rather unlucky situation regarding that.
It's an easy choice really: better to finish 4th than not.

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Sieper
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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that would be my choice as well. Unit 1 can then be used on fridays and unit 4 on saturday and sunday alone. Plus, if it is a rainy weekend the race might be wide open anyway.
Controversy does not have a short memory.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Before FP-2 started FERRARI confirmed a grid place penalty for race start for Leclerc having taken control electronics number three

Xwang
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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If I have correctly understood, Ferrari has broken one or two ICE (Leclerc's last one with a broken valve, correct), at least two turbo and they now use the third CE.
Have all the components been used above their capabilities to squeeze too much performance or the CE was causing issues to the other components and they had to change the control logics in order to avoid breaking other ICEs and turbos?
I'm still learning English so please excuse me if my English is not good enough and feel free to correct me via PM if you want.

dialtone
dialtone
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Xwang wrote:If I have correctly understood, Ferrari has broken one or two ICE (Leclerc's last one with a broken valve, correct), at least two turbo and they now use the third CE.
Have all the components been used above their capabilities to squeeze too much performance or the CE was causing issues to the other components and they had to change the control logics in order to avoid breaking other ICEs and turbos?
Only one ICE broke, PU2. It was likely broken by the overheating in Barcelona which broke the turbo and mguh. When the PU2 broke then in Baku, the valve stuff broke the new turbo.

It has nothing to do with keeping up with RedBull. When the engine broke in Barcelona Leclerc was on his way to dominating the GP by 20+ seconds, every engine was overheating that weekend, probably they made a mistake with temp sensors or somesuch.

The CE is just an extra CE, just in case, why not take an extra one of that as well?

FDD
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dialtone wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:19 pm
Xwang wrote:If I have correctly understood, Ferrari has broken one or two ICE (Leclerc's last one with a broken valve, correct), at least two turbo and they now use the third CE.
Have all the components been used above their capabilities to squeeze too much performance or the CE was causing issues to the other components and they had to change the control logics in order to avoid breaking other ICEs and turbos?
Only one ICE broke, PU2. It was likely broken by the overheating in Barcelona which broke the turbo and mguh. When the PU2 broke then in Baku, the valve stuff broke the new turbo.

It has nothing to do with keeping up with RedBull. When the engine broke in Barcelona Leclerc was on his way to dominating the GP by 20+ seconds, every engine was overheating that weekend, probably they made a mistake with temp sensors or somesuch.

The CE is just an extra CE, just in case, why not take an extra one of that as well?
Absolutely right, when they put the 4th ICE this weekend, it is very clever to put and new CE in the pool with same penalty.

DR30
DR30
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dialtone wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:19 pm
Xwang wrote:If I have correctly understood, Ferrari has broken one or two ICE (Leclerc's last one with a broken valve, correct), at least two turbo and they now use the third CE.
Have all the components been used above their capabilities to squeeze too much performance or the CE was causing issues to the other components and they had to change the control logics in order to avoid breaking other ICEs and turbos?
Only one ICE broke, PU2. It was likely broken by the overheating in Barcelona which broke the turbo and mguh. When the PU2 broke then in Baku, the valve stuff broke the new turbo.

It has nothing to do with keeping up with RedBull. When the engine broke in Barcelona Leclerc was on his way to dominating the GP by 20+ seconds, every engine was overheating that weekend, probably they made a mistake with temp sensors or somesuch.

The CE is just an extra CE, just in case, why not take an extra one of that as well?
Pretty sure the control electronics failed also during practice. Leclerc was unable to perform burnouts before performing a practice start and the message on the radio was "it's because of the turbo" then they changed the control electronics. Assume the "H" didn't function.

saviour stivala
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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The situation as is this season. It cannot but have all to do with keeping up with RBR/Honda, and same goes for RBR/Honda as the top spot is only between them two.
Those extra set of four power unit components, ICE – TC – ‘H’ and ‘K’, will cost Leclerc an extra nine grid drop slots compered to the eleven grid drop slots for that just one extra CE component. As for FERRARI/Leclerc the difference between grid slot eleven and twenty will make very little differences. there is nothing clever in this FERRARI move, as I am one hundred percent sure that anybody from on the grid that would have found himself in the same situation would have done the exact same move, namely extract the maximum that the rules allows with the minimum of penalty.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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They took the smart option by taking the 3rd powerunit on Friday with Turbo no1, than take a complete new powerunit no4 on Saturday. Now they can have both powerunits in the pool. Still have to option to take another turbocharger later on or take another new powerunit by that time.

ryaan2904
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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dialtone wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:19 pm
Xwang wrote:If I have correctly understood, Ferrari has broken one or two ICE (Leclerc's last one with a broken valve, correct), at least two turbo and they now use the third CE.
Have all the components been used above their capabilities to squeeze too much performance or the CE was causing issues to the other components and they had to change the control logics in order to avoid breaking other ICEs and turbos?
Only one ICE broke, PU2. It was likely broken by the overheating in Barcelona which broke the turbo and mguh. When the PU2 broke then in Baku, the valve stuff broke the new turbo.

It has nothing to do with keeping up with RedBull. When the engine broke in Barcelona Leclerc was on his way to dominating the GP by 20+ seconds, every engine was overheating that weekend, probably they made a mistake with temp sensors or somesuch.

The CE is just an extra CE, just in case, why not take an extra one of that as well?
How are we so sure that the valve stuff broke the engine? It could also be a turbo shaft failure or anything else
CFD Eyes of Sauron

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F1NAC
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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ryaan2904 wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 6:28 am
dialtone wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:19 pm
Xwang wrote:If I have correctly understood, Ferrari has broken one or two ICE (Leclerc's last one with a broken valve, correct), at least two turbo and they now use the third CE.
Have all the components been used above their capabilities to squeeze too much performance or the CE was causing issues to the other components and they had to change the control logics in order to avoid breaking other ICEs and turbos?
Only one ICE broke, PU2. It was likely broken by the overheating in Barcelona which broke the turbo and mguh. When the PU2 broke then in Baku, the valve stuff broke the new turbo.

It has nothing to do with keeping up with RedBull. When the engine broke in Barcelona Leclerc was on his way to dominating the GP by 20+ seconds, every engine was overheating that weekend, probably they made a mistake with temp sensors or somesuch.

The CE is just an extra CE, just in case, why not take an extra one of that as well?
How are we so sure that the valve stuff broke the engine? It could also be a turbo shaft failure or anything else
Turbo shaft failure has a distinctive sound when listening onboard. In Baku it was clear that engine went kaputt, when suddenly engine changed it's tone like something broke inside.

mzso
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Why didn't they also change the battery? Would Leclerc had to have started from the pitlane then? (If not, then it doesn't seem to make any sense, not to change it as well.)
Last edited by mzso on Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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organic
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Re: Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

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https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/for ... nik-mgu-k/

Haas having more MGU-K problems at Canada. Lots of MGU-K penalties for them this year I think. Ferrari may run into this problem if they also run their car lower - AMuS suggests that the Haas runs lower than other Ferrari teams and as such has been damaging the MGU-K somehow:
At most a suspicion. The Haas VF-22 rides lower than the Ferrari F1-75 and the Sauber C42, so it takes a heavier hit as the cars bottom out on bumps and curbs.