Red Bull RB9 Renault

[emerson-paldi]

also, i believe that webber and (especially)vettel dive deeper into slow turns, slow more, then turn sharper, before accelerating in a straighter line, compared to most other drivers. i believe this is conscious and deliberate, and coached by the team because their data shows it will be faster. i believe other teams dont follow red bull's lead because their analysis is not quite as refined, and due to car setup differences, it may simply not be beneficial for them.

Red Bull have been building down force bias cars the past years which allow them to carry significantly higher mid-corner speeds unlike the Mclarens which have had a strong power advantage but lacking in down force. Other teams can impossibly try to replicate how Red Bull drive their cars because the balance of speed, responsiveness, down force and tyre degradation differ between all the team.

[beelsebob]

also, i believe that webber and (especially)vettel dive deeper into slow turns, slow more, then turn sharper, before accelerating in a straighter line, compared to most other drivers. i believe this is conscious and deliberate, and coached by the team because their data shows it will be faster. i believe other teams dont follow red bull's lead because their analysis is not quite as refined, and due to car setup differences, it may simply not be beneficial for them.

Red Bull have been building down force bias cars the past years which allow them to carry significantly higher mid-corner speeds unlike the Mclarens which have had a strong power advantage but lacking in down force. Other teams can impossibly try to replicate how Red Bull drive their cars because the balance of speed, responsiveness, down force and tyre degradation differ between all the team.

This dogma keeps being repeated, and it was probably true of the RB6 and 7. But I don't believe it's been true last year, and I'm not completely sure it's true this year either. The McLaren was absolutely outclassing the RB8 through the medium/high speed section at CotA last year for example. Red Bull were destroying McLaren through the low speed traction section.

[spiritone]

The race at cota last year was a good example of red bulls excellent traction off slow corners. Everytime hamilton would get close vettel would leave him on the tight corner leading on to the long straight. Hamilton took advantage of the only opertunity he had when vettel got held up slightly by a lapped car.

[gary123]

The race at cota last year was a good example of red bulls excellent traction off slow corners. Everytime hamilton would get close vettel would leave him on the tight corner leading on to the long straight. Hamilton took advantage of the only opertunity he had when vettel got held up slightly by a lapped car.

and why the rb8 l wasnt able to catch the mclaren ??

[rayden]

I don't think you can cherry pick one example like that though.
Both RB and Mc could have gone in different directions, setup wise, on that particular weekend.

I remember webber destroying silverstone last year, which is all fast corners.

[Cam]

The race at cota last year was a good example of red bulls excellent traction off slow corners. Everytime hamilton would get close vettel would leave him on the tight corner leading on to the long straight. Hamilton took advantage of the only opertunity he had when vettel got held up slightly by a lapped car.

and why the rb8 l wasnt able to catch the mclaren ??

Catching and overtaking are two very distinct and separate things. Red Bull never (well that seems to have changed a bit recently) had top end speed. They relied on getting away in the corner exit fast enough to render the following cars DRS void. By the time the following car had the top speed to overtake, Red Bull was too far ahead for them to catch and pass before the next corner was upon them. The opposite is true, however the Red Bull could never get close enough in corner exit to 'leap' on the car ahead. And, as mentioned, the lack of top end speed, meant they could never overtake on a straight.

[beelsebob]

I don't think you can cherry pick one example like that though.
Both RB and Mc could have gone in different directions, setup wise, on that particular weekend.

I remember webber destroying silverstone last year, which is all fast corners.

The point is that the traditional dogma "zomg, red bull are great in medium to high speed corners" is not really true any more. If it were, it would consistently be the case. The RB6 and RB7 consistently looked on rails round high speed corners. The RB8 and RB9 are both more balanced cars, and if they dominate any one area, I'd argue that it's low speed traction, not high speed cornering.

[timbo]

I don't think you can cherry pick one example like that though.
Both RB and Mc could have gone in different directions, setup wise, on that particular weekend.

I remember webber destroying silverstone last year, which is all fast corners.

The point is that the traditional dogma "zomg, red bull are great in medium to high speed corners" is not really true any more. If it were, it would consistently be the case. The RB6 and RB7 consistently looked on rails round high speed corners. The RB8 and RB9 are both more balanced cars, and if they dominate any one area, I'd argue that it's low speed traction, not high speed cornering.

Actually I think it's more about braking now. I do agree that they are not dominating high-medium speed corners like they used to.

[Juzh]

Last year was a bit of a mixed bag actually. In Silverstone RB8 was the top car in high speed and mclaren was nowhere. Also in india & japan it was really obvious the pace advantage of RBs trough high speed. But then, come COTA, mclaren took off and hamilton's car was visibly more stable on the rear in 1st sector and also turned in much better. Then in 3rd sector, Vettel had better traction than hamilton, which wasnt the case just a race prior in abu dhabi.

[beelsebob]

Last year was a bit of a mixed bag actually. In Silverstone RB8 was the top car in high speed and mclaren was nowhere. Also in india & japan it was really obvious the pace advantage of RBs trough high speed. But then, come COTA, mclaren took off and hamilton's car was visibly more stable on the rear in 1st sector and also turned in much better. Then in 3rd sector, Vettel had better traction than hamilton, which wasnt the case just a race prior in abu dhabi.

Right, that's rather my point – while the RB8 was a damn good car, and certainly couldn't be said to be sloppy through mid/high speed, it was not dominant there, and I don't believe the RB9 is either. The RB8 and 9 are just damn good all round cars. The RB6 and 7 were unbelievably good high speed cornering cars.

[f1316]

Last year was a bit of a mixed bag actually. In Silverstone RB8 was the top car in high speed and mclaren was nowhere. Also in india & japan it was really obvious the pace advantage of RBs trough high speed. But then, come COTA, mclaren took off and hamilton's car was visibly more stable on the rear in 1st sector and also turned in much better. Then in 3rd sector, Vettel had better traction than hamilton, which wasnt the case just a race prior in abu dhabi.

Right, that's rather my point – while the RB8 was a damn good car, and certainly couldn't be said to be sloppy through mid/high speed, it was not dominant there, and I don't believe the RB9 is either. The RB8 and 9 are just damn good all round cars. The RB6 and 7 were unbelievably good high speed cornering cars.

I've actually been thinking exactly this (Andrew Benson falls into this fallacy in his British gp preview).

If we take this year's cars as our example, the first sector of Barcelona seemed to show Ferrari as the best through the quick corners, with the slower s3 being RB and merc's strong point.

[rayden]

I think if the tyres weren't made of butter, they would still be dominant in the high speed stuff.

They aren't even leaning on them 100% in Q3 anymore as they want them to survive for a decent amount of time into the first stint.

[Artur Craft]

This dogma keeps being repeated, and it was probably true of the RB6 and 7. But I don't believe it's been true last year, and I'm not completely sure it's true this year either. The McLaren was absolutely outclassing the RB8 through the medium/high speed section at CotA last year for example. Red Bull were destroying McLaren through the low speed traction section.

I can affirm RB5,6 and 7 had a big advantadge in high/mid speed corners. I can also affirm RB8 was lacking a bit to Lotus and Mclaren, at least in the early races of last year.

After RB8 had a more "mature" coanda exhaust solution, then I don't know how they stood compared to these other cars as I didn't see the data from the cars from mid last year until now.

I also don't know, therefore, how RB9 stands on downforce levels compared to the others but I doubt they dominate because that already changed in the start of last year and I don't see how they could have reverted back to that given such tight regulations. A look into particular sector times also hints that.

[Huntresa]

I dont think its so much RB having better in high speed corners, but overall a better car if we had tyres that lasted 300 laps.

[beelsebob]

I dont think its so much RB having better in high speed corners, but overall a better car if we had tyres that lasted 300 laps.

No --- – who wouldn't have a better car if the tyres magically lasted longer.