2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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wickedz50
wickedz50
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Ferrari was so much in joy from securing the 1-2 qualifying result that they forgot about the start today.. I felt Vettel was too casual at the start and was caught napping even after the safety car start..somebody needs to remind them that Bothas is not Palmer. Just by finishing ahead of Hamilton will not win then the WDC and WCC...Bothas will be crucial so please Ferrari start covering that danger too and not leave the door open.

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Chene_Mostert
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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matt_b wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:14 pm
krisfx wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:02 pm
Andres125sx wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:40 pm
I can´t remember any other race this boring...
The last one at Sochi, probably. Awful circuit.

There was some excitement in the first few laps, though.
Did anyone see any on track overtaking apart from the opening lap? it was a shocker, but not to worry with spain and monaco next we should see some overtaking...wait a minute #-o
Yes I saw cars overtaking a McLaren parked in the pit entry on the formation lap... :(
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

Mandrake
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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wickedz50 wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:16 pm
Ferrari was so much in joy from securing the 1-2 qualifying result that they forgot about the start today.. I felt Vettel was too casual at the start and was caught napping even after the safety car start..somebody needs to remind them that Bothas is not Palmer. Just by finishing ahead of Hamilton will not win then the WDC and WCC...Bothas will be crucial so please Ferrari start covering that danger too and not leave the door open.
I did not see anything casual at the start by Vettel. The Merc is pretty good this year at starting and the Power of the Q3 map did really show. This is not going to happen on a "normal" track where the first corner is not 1km down the road. So overall the Ferrari again was the faster car, just the nature of the track favouring the best engine (Merc) and the subsequent loss of position prevented it today. Also the Mercs did not show that much of a tire issue throughout the race. So it's not about the tires alone that Ferrari has an advantage.

In the Bahrain thread it was mentioned that Hamilton was too careful at the start. I feel that today he lost a possible podium that way. He was already alongside Raikkonen but backed out completely not even trying to get the pass done. Overtaking in Sochi was so difficult, at no point would Raikkonen have passed him. Maybe with an undercut....

Edax
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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dans79 wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:35 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:34 pm
Please don't over exaggerate, just some glowing ignited carbon dust due to increased air content from wheel gun. Very common with carbon racing brakes.... if you pay attention to other cars, not just Mercedes Power Plus, you would have noticed many times before :o
That was not what was shown here in the states, actual flames where shown.
Technically it was flames. :D But it was some carbon dust igniting, not the actual disk being on fire.

I thought that the wheel guns where all running nitrogen after helium and argon were banned, or is it now real air?

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Mandrake wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:35 pm
So overall the Ferrari again was the faster car, just
Well, using the logic of the Ferrari fans from the past races, "The faster car won today" and that was not Ferrari. Rest everything is just excuses.

Honestly speaking, how was Ferrari faster? Bottas made a good start, kept getting away at the start and he was MAINTAINING the gap of 5 seconds in the first stint. Everytime Vettel put a faster lap, Bottas responded. That doesn't suggest to me that it was Ferrari who was faster. They ONLY SEEMED FASTER at the end because of Vettel pitting later and having 7 laps fresher set of tyres and Bottas made mistake and screwed up his tyres with a massive flat spot. With 8 MPH slower throughout the race on speed traps and doing nothing extraordinary in S2 or S3 in the first stint when situation was same for both cars while carrying race load, if someone says Ferrari was faster, that means, you did not pay attention to details.

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stuartpengs
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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aral wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:23 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:05 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:55 pm


yes, yes he did! well done, Seb extended WC lead!
And the both Ferraris on 3rd Turbo.
Oh, not that old chestnut again? The turbos were being rotated and there has only been one damaged turbo this year. All turbos will be re-used during the season apart from the fire damaged on which had a split casing.
I'm no dog in this endless and thoroughly petulant Ferrari/Mercedes, Vettel/Hamilton yadder, yadder, yadder, but do members of a technical forum really believe this line being put out by Ferrari. No matter how you look at it, it simply doesn't make any sense unless they're concerned with the turbos. If they expect them to be reliable there's no sense in rotation as you're cutting off one of the most fundamental development areas, coupled with the removal of the token system (yey!). Sorry, but any objective view should leave you with the view that they are having turbo reliability issues.

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Chene_Mostert
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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stuartpengs wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:48 pm
aral wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:23 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:05 pm
And the both Ferraris on 3rd Turbo.
Oh, not that old chestnut again? The turbos were being rotated and there has only been one damaged turbo this year. All turbos will be re-used during the season apart from the fire damaged on which had a split casing.
I'm no dog in this endless and thoroughly petulant Ferrari/Mercedes, Vettel/Hamilton yadder, yadder, yadder, but do members of a technical forum really believe this line being put out by Ferrari. No matter how you look at it, it simply doesn't make any sense unless they're concerned with the turbos. If they expect them to be reliable there's no sense in rotation as you're cutting off one of the most fundamental development areas, coupled with the removal of the token system (yey!). Sorry, but any objective view should leave you with the view that they are having turbo reliability issues.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.
I'm sure their Technical people know a bit more than members of a "technical" forum?
"Science at its best is an open-minded method of inquiry, not a belief system." - Rupert Sheldrake

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stuartpengs
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:53 pm
stuartpengs wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:48 pm
aral wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:23 pm

Oh, not that old chestnut again? The turbos were being rotated and there has only been one damaged turbo this year. All turbos will be re-used during the season apart from the fire damaged on which had a split casing.
I'm no dog in this endless and thoroughly petulant Ferrari/Mercedes, Vettel/Hamilton yadder, yadder, yadder, but do members of a technical forum really believe this line being put out by Ferrari. No matter how you look at it, it simply doesn't make any sense unless they're concerned with the turbos. If they expect them to be reliable there's no sense in rotation as you're cutting off one of the most fundamental development areas, coupled with the removal of the token system (yey!). Sorry, but any objective view should leave you with the view that they are having turbo reliability issues.
I guess we will just have to wait and see.
I'm sure their Technical people know a bit more than members of a "technical" forum?
I'm sure they do, and to be fair F1 teams are renowned for telling the truth......oh..wait...

Manjhi
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Seriously a boring circuit, they should consider adding some walls and make it a perfect street circuit, or even consider making it a circuit where overtaking becomes easier. Because in its current form the races are bound to be boring. As far as race was concerned :
Bottas was clearly a flawless driver today, and yes Mercs was faster car today, but they were not pushing to the limit due to temperature issue. The package is too compact.

Ferrari's weaknesses can be seen from this race, they are very gentle on tyres and that results in bad start and they need time to get the temp in tyres.

In Mid-field, FORCE INDIA!!! They carry their luck with themselves. 4th in constructors and they still havn't brought the complete package yet. Heard that they are bringing a complete new package in Barcelona. Williams has bad days ahead, Red Bull need to up their game otherwise they'll have to fight the FI guys and I don't want to listen those threat statement from Helmut and RB owner about leaving the sports.

toraabe
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:46 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:42 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:33 pm
No more massive power advantage to mask chassis / aero mediocracy.
Yeah right.
Advantage still there, not massive, not masking the mediocracy any more, all they have is 8MPH straight line speed adv. Bottas brilliant here.
The good start of bottaa is also due to the first gears on the Mercedes is shorter than the Ferrari. It also has better low end grunt. I am sure this is not the first time we will see this.

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Juzh
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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toraabe wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:55 pm
Chene_Mostert wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:46 pm
GPR-A wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 2:42 pm
Yeah right.
Advantage still there, not massive, not masking the mediocracy any more, all they have is 8MPH straight line speed adv. Bottas brilliant here.
The good start of bottaa is also due to the first gears on the Mercedes is shorter than the Ferrari. It also has better low end grunt. I am sure this is not the first time we will see this.
lol

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Juzh
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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GPR-A wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:44 pm
Mandrake wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:35 pm
So overall the Ferrari again was the faster car, just
Well, using the logic of the Ferrari fans from the past races, "The faster car won today" and that was not Ferrari. Rest everything is just excuses.

Honestly speaking, how was Ferrari faster? Bottas made a good start, kept getting away at the start and he was MAINTAINING the gap of 5 seconds in the first stint. Everytime Vettel put a faster lap, Bottas responded. That doesn't suggest to me that it was Ferrari who was faster. They ONLY SEEMED FASTER at the end because of Vettel pitting later and having 7 laps fresher set of tyres and Bottas made mistake and screwed up his tyres with a massive flat spot. With 8 MPH slower throughout the race on speed traps and doing nothing extraordinary in S2 or S3 in the first stint when situation was same for both cars while carrying race load, if someone says Ferrari was faster, that means, you did not pay attention to details.
Why so mad m8? I hate mercedes and their cheating oil burn antics so much I'd rather see maldonado win again, but even then I'm not at all mad that bottas won today. It's clear as day merc won this in their overpowered engine off the start and trough the first stint, and that's it.

And no, Bottas didn't beat 2 faster cars today. Bottas should have been on pole yesterday, but couldn't string a few good sectors together, seeing as his best sectors would put him comfortably on pole. How can you be so much faster on the straights and somehow end up third is quite astonishing really.
Hamilton was having a --- show since friday, not sure what was going on with him tbh.

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iotar__
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Juzh wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 8:07 pm
And no, Bottas didn't beat 2 faster cars today. Bottas should have been on pole yesterday, but couldn't string a few good sectors together, seeing as his best sectors would put him comfortably on pole. How can you be so much faster on the straights and somehow end up third is quite astonishing really.
Hamilton was having a --- show since friday, not sure what was going on with him tbh.
Of course he did, check his team-mate and pace in Q and on Sunday. Ask Ferrari, Wolff, Lauda, Chthulu, check Friday FP. Most importantly watch the damn race: Ferrari were the quickest on SS, US and in Q and no amount of pushing unpleasant reality will help you with this poor spin.

Especially the "mistake" in Q part. He made a mistake (same as in the race) because risking is the only way of beating quicker cars. Raikkonen is ancient and slow, Vettel barely quicker and Hamilton 0,6 from pole.

Palmer caused another incident and friendly FIA (Button, Hamilton, Palmer) of course bailed him out. A simple early enough inside-outside line and he started turning before the corner. Lack of skills and and one-sided. They investigated Stroll spinning on his own though. Couldn't be bothered with Hamilton cutting the corner in Mexico but here, why not?

"Massa did Bottas 'a favour twice' " Vettel is a bit imprecise here:
- Pit earlier, you stayed for a reason, pros and cons, or overtake him
- Verstappen gave you the win in Aus then
- Bottas hit backmarkers earlier in the first stint and towards the end, helped you.

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Mr.G
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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As Ferrari fan I'm pleased. Not so much to chant "Gina davanti e dietro tutti quanti!" but still :)... This circuit should be suitable for Mercedes and they should drive away right form the start (by the paper predictions). It would be nicer if Vettel can hold the position on the start, but to be honest the first sector was the strongest fore Mercedes and the worst for Ferrari. Maybe if there wont be the extra worming lap, Vettel would have more chances against Bottas in the first lap and may be not.

Now two long week till Barecelona and waiting who will bring the best working and powerful updates...

And congratulations to Bottas, it was fully deserved win.
Art without engineering is dreaming. Engineering without art is calculating. Steven K. Roberts

Edax
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Re: 2017 Russian Grand Prix - Sochi Autodrom, April 28-30

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Manjhi wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 6:21 pm
In Mid-field, FORCE INDIA!!! They carry their luck with themselves.
It keeps amazing me how well organized, together and consistent their performance is. Again they put some teams with zillion dollar budgets and company backing to shame. It is nice to see that F1 still isn't all about the money, but that teamwork and driver skill still count.