Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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NathanOlder
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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dans79 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:46 pm
strad wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:39 pm
Numbers shot to death by the cops
In 2020: White 172 Black 88
in 2019: White 370 Black 235
In 2018: White 399 Black 209
In 2017: White 457 Black 223
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585 ... e-by-race/
the Washington Post keeps track of these numbers as well. You can look it up.
Those numbers by themselves don't say much. For example, a person with one point of view would argue black people only make up 12 to 15% of the population, and those numbers don't reflect that. A person with a different view would argue black people commit a disproportionately high number of violent crimes and thus are more likely to have a violent interaction with police.

In short the water is a lot muddier than it might seem at first glance.
Talking about percentages, that brings me back to when siskue2005 was saying about him/her not being able to get a job as a doctor in the UK because of his nationality/race. When you actually look at the figures only the white race in the UK are heavily down in terms of percentage. NHS medical staff are made up of 55% white, yet the population of the UK is over 80% white. When looking at Asian, NHS Medical staff is 30% , yet the population is only 7%. If these numbers are accurate, how can anyone claim an Asian isn't getting a doctors job because of their race ?

I applied to join the police force 3 times in my 20's, I had all the qualifications and some and no reasons (criminal ect) to not get the job. I'm 6ft tall, 80KG. They turned me down each time, and all I can think of is....... I wasn't good enough for the job for some reason or another. I accepted that, and moved on.
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turbof1
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:48 pm
turbof1 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:40 pm
about single mindedly focussing on one race, etc. While:
Yes... because... Black people started BLM! in response to the systemic racism against them in the USA. Black and White have a strong interconnected history in the states, so it stems from that. To omuch stuff to cover here. You know the movie "How to train your dragon?' There had few manuals on "how to train and breed and punish your slaves" back then. You see, according to government papers back then Black people were not considered humans. Only 5/8th human! Imagine that! And have been fighting for just to be given equal rights and justice since.
-Defunding the police isn't going to solve having officers who can't control themselves. Rather, I'd see a raise in funding and all of that raise going to proper training in stress management and situation assessment.
True. But know that the leader of Black Lives Matter has stated that contrary to some of his colleagues, he doesn't not advocate de-funding the police. The thing with these sort of movements is there are different factions with differing views.
-Something popular in my country: Congo, a former colony of Belgium, should be getting payment as restitution for the horrible deeds of our former king Leopold II. Now granted, that *sshole did horrible things. However, paying back damages to Congo right now will not go the people as the political situation there is highly volatile. They are better off sending a peaceforce in there, dethrown and dismantle the current political situation and putting up fair democratic elections.
This is true. The corruption is too high to be giving money directly to some governments. But other direct measures can be taken I suppose. As you know Belgium did some nasty things, man. Inhumane!
-The BLM movement should really encompass more than just one race.
NAh. It is specifically for Black people because of historical reasons. However, I hope that any good that comes from it also helps for everyone.
I am well aware of the atrocities committed under King Leopold II (but also by his henchmen, who are more often than not left out in that debate).

I also still don't see how this should be about racism against black people only. Why not enlarge the debate and tackle all of racism. For instance, there are enough asian people being victim of hate crimes as well, or hespanic people. It's not about highjacking the movement, or deluting the origins of the movement. It is about doing right.
#AeroFrodo

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dren
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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3jawchuck wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am
Yeah, resisting arrest is dumb. But so is choking a man to death when he posed no threat to you or others around him. I don't know nor give a --- if it was because he was black, police brutality has gone on too long and those who perpetrate it need prosecuting.
I'm not advocating abuse of power by the police, it happens more than it should. That's the nature of a position that holds power over others, they are often attractive to those who will want to abuse the power.

But, if you are referring to Floyd, his autopsies showed he died of a heart attack from a fentanyl overdose.
Honda!

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dren
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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turbof1 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:13 pm
I also still don't see how this should be about racism against black people only. Why not enlarge the debate and tackle all of racism. For instance, there are enough asian people being victim of hate crimes as well, or hespanic people. It's not about highjacking the movement, or deluting the origins of the movement. It is about doing right.
You could make the case that it is racist by only focusing on black people.

Just follow that old saying: Treat others as you wish to be treated. That solves a lot more issues than just racism.

As long as we have different races with different cultures, there will always be racism. Focusing on the above statement will help to reduce issues between different cultures, races, religions, ideologies, etc.
Honda!

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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dren wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:46 pm
3jawchuck wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am
Yeah, resisting arrest is dumb. But so is choking a man to death when he posed no threat to you or others around him. I don't know nor give a --- if it was because he was black, police brutality has gone on too long and those who perpetrate it need prosecuting.
I'm not advocating abuse of power by the police, it happens more than it should. That's the nature of a position that holds power over others, they are often attractive to those who will want to abuse the power.

But, if you are referring to Floyd, his autopsies showed he died of a heart attack from a fentanyl overdose.
That was the police their autopsy. The family asked and got a second opinion, and guess what: he was choked to death, just like the video showed.

It was another case of trying to cover up. Just like the very dangerous peace protester who retuned a helmet to the cops that “tripped” in the official reports.

Wynters
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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turbof1 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:13 pm
I also still don't see how this should be about racism against black people only. Why not enlarge the debate and tackle all of racism. For instance, there are enough asian people being victim of hate crimes as well, or hespanic people. It's not about highjacking the movement, or deluting the origins of the movement. It is about doing right.
I view it as being like campaigning to raise money to fight brain cancer. There are lots of types of cancer but not every movement has to be for all of them.

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subcritical71
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:18 pm
dren wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:46 pm
3jawchuck wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:46 am
Yeah, resisting arrest is dumb. But so is choking a man to death when he posed no threat to you or others around him. I don't know nor give a --- if it was because he was black, police brutality has gone on too long and those who perpetrate it need prosecuting.
I'm not advocating abuse of power by the police, it happens more than it should. That's the nature of a position that holds power over others, they are often attractive to those who will want to abuse the power.

But, if you are referring to Floyd, his autopsies showed he died of a heart attack from a fentanyl overdose.
That was the police their autopsy. The family asked and got a second opinion, and guess what: he was choked to death, just like the video showed.

It was another case of trying to cover up. Just like the very dangerous peace protester who retuned a helmet to the cops that “tripped” in the official reports.
I'm not taking a position on the results of the autopsy, but you dismiss the police autopsy finding and put faith behind the families autopsy. While the medical examiner is an elected official, I don't know the existing relationship of the families coroner. While I would tend to believe there is a separation of the police and medical examiners, lets say they are actively working together to cover up the cause of death. Don't both parties, the police and family coroner, have an agenda?

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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subcritical71 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:30 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:18 pm
dren wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:46 pm


I'm not advocating abuse of power by the police, it happens more than it should. That's the nature of a position that holds power over others, they are often attractive to those who will want to abuse the power.

But, if you are referring to Floyd, his autopsies showed he died of a heart attack from a fentanyl overdose.
That was the police their autopsy. The family asked and got a second opinion, and guess what: he was choked to death, just like the video showed.

It was another case of trying to cover up. Just like the very dangerous peace protester who retuned a helmet to the cops that “tripped” in the official reports.
I'm not taking a position on the results of the autopsy, but you dismiss the police autopsy finding and put faith behind the families autopsy. While the medical examiner is an elected official, I don't know the existing relationship of the families coroner. While I would tend to believe there is a separation of the police and medical examiners, lets say they are actively working together to cover up the cause of death. Don't both parties, the police and family coroner, have an agenda?
There is an excellent piece of investigated journalism of Jon Oliver about autopsies and police evidence a few years back. As for the independent result of the family, the findings have been shared and the general consensus between pathologist is that it was indeed the choke.

The police system, unions, labs, etc etc. It’s a very very rotten system. It’s been shown over and over again. And the next response now would probably be “what about?”

Educate yourself and look at investigative reporting, first hand reports and scientists. Don’t be fooled by some media that just shouts “it’s not true” because the “least racist person ever” president said so. Hell, he even said to cops “don’t be to gentle with them” and sharing videos of supporters shouting “white power”.

Trump, Stephen Miller and The Mercers represent leadership ruled by people who I view not to support black people their rights. There is a mountain of evidence that supports that. Trump has even been convicted for racism.

This week Fox ran a report, well, a rant against a republican who dared to suggest that police should loose their immunity.
Last edited by turbof1 on Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:44 pm
Educate yourself and look at investigative reporting, first hand reports and scientists.
And you should be doing the same. Not listening to the the press who at best are completely out of their depth, or have one of multiple agendas of their own, depending on their country of origin , and political bias of the specific news outlet.


The dumbed down press release from the examiner.
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... ticleShare
Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual,
restraint, and neck compression

Manner of death: Homicide

How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while
being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)
The official 20 page autopsy.
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... _Floyd.pdf
164 98 95 7

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turbof1
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:19 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:44 pm
Educate yourself and look at investigative reporting, first hand reports and scientists.
And you should be doing the same. Not listening to the the press who at best are completely out of their depth, or have one of multiple agendas of their own, depending on their country of origin , and political bias of the specific news outlet.


The dumbed down press release from the examiner.
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... ticleShare
Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual,
restraint, and neck compression

Manner of death: Homicide

How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while
being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)
The official 20 page autopsy.
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... _Floyd.pdf
I believe there were 2 reports though, with the second pointing out it was caused by suffocating.I can be wrong though, this is from the top of my head.
#AeroFrodo

Jolle
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:19 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:44 pm
Educate yourself and look at investigative reporting, first hand reports and scientists.
And you should be doing the same. Not listening to the the press who at best are completely out of their depth, or have one of multiple agendas of their own, depending on their country of origin , and political bias of the specific news outlet.


The dumbed down press release from the examiner.
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... ticleShare
Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual,
restraint, and neck compression

Manner of death: Homicide

How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while
being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)
The official 20 page autopsy.
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... _Floyd.pdf
I do educate myself and that's why it's so difficult to understand why the USA have chosen a president who follows conspiracy theories instead of science and facts.

But I guess you are one of those people who think scientific bureau's like NASA, CDC, WHO, etc etc are guided by some big political power and part of the deep state? or something.... if so, you are two clicks away from flat earth video's, good chance Youtube's algorithms already put them in the "watch next".

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/vo ... f-america/
Last edited by Jolle on Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Wynters
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:44 pm
Educate yourself and look at investigative reporting, first hand reports and scientists. Don’t be fooled by some media that just shouts “it’s not true” because the “least racist person ever” president said so.
I'd be very careful about what media sources you trust. No popular media source has the goal of being a neutral witness of events. They all have an editorial slant. Not only is this human nature but it's also a vital survival mechanism because you need a slice of the market to survive and no one likes having their comfortable bubble pierced with inconvenient facts.

For instance, the quote you mentioned from Trump about 'very fine people' was repeatedly used out of context in the media (not least by Jon Oliver). Find the transcript of the actual press conference, you'll find what Trump actually said was deliberately misreported by numerous outlets.*

It's very easy to trust media sources that agree with you. It's human nature. But I urge everyone to be critical of anything that they read. And everything you don't read because popular media will often decide not to report something that conflicts with the narrative they've been building for their audience. (e.g. You mentioned that no white person has anything to worry about from the US police, nor has to worry about being asphyxiated whilst cuffed. Tony Timpa's family might disagree but I suspect his case hasn't appeared in your news feed).

As for first hand reports, Rashomon and the Gulf of Tonkin incident have something to say about accuracy in the immediate aftermath of an event.

Scientists...scientists are great. But familiarity with the language and context with which they operate is vital so that their statements can be correctly understood. Hurricane path maps are a pertinent example of this. The 'cone of uncertainty' isn't showing the area that will be affected by the storm, it's only showing the likely path of the centre of the storm and only has a 67% degree of certainty.

To be clear, this isn't only aimed at one user, but at all of us. It's very easy to accept what we hear because we want to believe it. We need to be vigilant.

*Which is mindboggling because it's not like you have to work to cast Trump in a bad light, just accurately report what he's saying and he'll condemn himself.
Last edited by Wynters on Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nzjrs
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Re: Mercedes changes 2020 livery in fight against racism

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It's widely held that sport is the healthy outlet for our tribal instincts - not the specter of american politics.

I'm puzzled how non-US folks have got so sucked into this game when it's clear that they are the ones being played *only* for clicks.

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turbof1
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:37 pm
dans79 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:19 pm
Jolle wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:44 pm
Educate yourself and look at investigative reporting, first hand reports and scientists.
And you should be doing the same. Not listening to the the press who at best are completely out of their depth, or have one of multiple agendas of their own, depending on their country of origin , and political bias of the specific news outlet.


The dumbed down press release from the examiner.
https://content.govdelivery.com/attachm ... ticleShare
Cause of death: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual,
restraint, and neck compression

Manner of death: Homicide

How injury occurred: Decedent experienced a cardiopulmonary arrest while
being restrained by law enforcement officer(s)
The official 20 page autopsy.
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepi ... _Floyd.pdf
I do educate myself and that's why it's so difficult to understand why the USA have chosen a president who follows conspiracy theories instead of science and facts.

But I guess you are one of those people who think scientific bureau's like NASA, CDC, WHO, etc etc are guided by some big political power and part of the deep state? or something.... if so, you are two clicks away from flat earth video's, good chance Youtube's algorithms already put them in the "watch next".
Jolle, please calm down. You are not going to convince people by accusing them for instance of "flat earth theories". There will always be different viewpoints. The discussion is already highly sensitive, so let us treat eachother with respect even if different viewpoints. I think somewhere that is the point of BLM too: able to respect eachother. Take a good breath, take the emotion out of your words and stay rational.
#AeroFrodo

dans79
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Re: [ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

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turbof1 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:30 pm
I believe there were 2 reports though, with the second pointing out it was caused by suffocating.I can be wrong though, this is from the top of my head.
The second report was a private one, and the findings are the same, just worded differently.

what you are referring to is covered by "complicating law enforcement subdual,
restraint, and neck compression"
164 98 95 7