This is exactly what I was trying to establish with my initial post. That the RB15 didn’t have them at launch, and they developed their own version later.dans79 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:01 amOne of the great things about the forum is being able to go back and search the car threads.
Horns first showed up on the W10 on Tue Feb 26, 2019, a photo of them Via @AlbertFabrega was posted by @Morteza.
viewtopic.php?p=816567#p816567
they didn't show up on the RB15 untill Thu Jun 06, 2019 as can be seen here.
viewtopic.php?p=838344#p838344
So RBR didn't have horns until over 3 months after Merc!
I never claimed that Red Bull invented the horns. I merely pointed out the ones that W11 have now is a copy of the more advanced ones the Red Bull Rb15 had developed. You seem to try to attribute the ingenuity of the RedBull design to Mercedes and say that Mercedes had them last year first. Well let me tell you someone at Mercedes studied the Red Bull design and found merit in it and copied it. Otherwise they would have stuck to their earlier design. And if you think Mercedes invented it last year, guess what they've been around since the Earth Dreams Honda F1 car a decade ago.zibby43 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:12 amThis is exactly what I was trying to establish with my initial post. That the RB15 didn’t have them at launch, and they developed their own version later.dans79 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:01 amOne of the great things about the forum is being able to go back and search the car threads.
Horns first showed up on the W10 on Tue Feb 26, 2019, a photo of them Via @AlbertFabrega was posted by @Morteza.
viewtopic.php?p=816567#p816567
they didn't show up on the RB15 untill Thu Jun 06, 2019 as can be seen here.
viewtopic.php?p=838344#p838344
So RBR didn't have horns until over 3 months after Merc!
Thank you for the additional detailed timing information as to when these developments showed up!
I could care less about downvotes. All I care about is the truth and making sure people aren't spreading fake news.zibby43 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:56 amBut yeah, thanks for hitting my initial post with a downvote and saying I was wrong, when Red Bull did not have chassis horns whatsoever all the way up to Spa, whereas the W10 had them for almost the entire season, sans the initial launch spec.
Think it’s really childish how you try to weaponize those downvotes, as opposed to just having a civil discussion, where we could've clarified our positions without being adversarial. I’m done interacting with you on this forum.
It's just that you and Dan never like to admit that Red Bull is doing something better than Mercedes and try to spin it to you liking. The contoured horns in the current Formula was in fact developed and researched by Red Bull and Mercedes looked at theirs and then looked at Red Bulls and thought, hrmm, maybe there's is better...
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness.”
― Oscar Wilde
From my first post.
You do realize that Brawn bought Honda in 2009, and Mercedes bought Brawn in 2010 right?ispano6 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:37 amAnd if you think Mercedes invented it last year, guess what they've been around since the Earth Dreams Honda F1 car a decade ago.
So do Mercedes get credit for that too? The Honda design is much closer to Red Bull one than the Mercedes was at inception.
They were called strange and wacky and failed hard etc. They were just far too ahead of its time. The timing was 2008 for your information.
Ofcourse I know this... I know Honda F1 better than most people here. I've followed F1 since 1986 and know of detailed stories of Honda F1 staff that only internal people know. Some of the perks of being the son-in-law of one of the people who was in charge of Honda's top secret information. He had to lug Honda F1 engine exhausts in his personal suitcase on emergency order back in the day. To this day we are upset that the President of Honda at the time decided to sell the team and all its facilities for 1 pound.dans79 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:59 amYou do realize that Brawn bought Honda in 2009, and Mercedes bought Brawn in 2010 right?ispano6 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:37 amAnd if you think Mercedes invented it last year, guess what they've been around since the Earth Dreams Honda F1 car a decade ago.
So do Mercedes get credit for that too? The Honda design is much closer to Red Bull one than the Mercedes was at inception.
They were called strange and wacky and failed hard etc. They were just far too ahead of its time. The timing was 2008 for your information.
While I'm sure there aren't many people left in the aero department from 2008, I bet you all the designs and testing data is still available for review.
It really makes me chuckle looking at this debate! Mercedes' current chief designer John Owen is with this team since 2007, when the team was Honda F1. He was the Principal Aerodynamicist at Honda!ispano6 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:37 amI never claimed that Red Bull invented the horns. I merely pointed out the ones that W11 have now is a copy of the more advanced ones the Red Bull Rb15 had developed. You seem to try to attribute the ingenuity of the RedBull design to Mercedes and say that Mercedes had them last year first. Well let me tell you someone at Mercedes studied the Red Bull design and found merit in it and copied it. Otherwise they would have stuck to their earlier design. And if you think Mercedes invented it last year, guess what they've been around since the Earth Dreams Honda F1 car a decade ago.zibby43 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:12 amThis is exactly what I was trying to establish with my initial post. That the RB15 didn’t have them at launch, and they developed their own version later.dans79 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:01 amOne of the great things about the forum is being able to go back and search the car threads.
Horns first showed up on the W10 on Tue Feb 26, 2019, a photo of them Via @AlbertFabrega was posted by @Morteza.
viewtopic.php?p=816567#p816567
they didn't show up on the RB15 untill Thu Jun 06, 2019 as can be seen here.
viewtopic.php?p=838344#p838344
So RBR didn't have horns until over 3 months after Merc!
Thank you for the additional detailed timing information as to when these developments showed up!
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/55/94/a8 ... 6f7f34.jpg
https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1 ... ff503b.jpg
So do Mercedes get credit for that too? The Honda design is much closer to Red Bull one than the Mercedes was at inception.
They were called strange and wacky and failed hard etc. They were just far too ahead of its time. The timing was 2008 for your information.
Yes, credit should go to where credit is due. Vandoorne said it as well, the reason why the Mercedes team is so strong is because of the continuity of personnel from the last 15 years. That would make it the 2005 Honda team(car side) + Mercedes PU department since Mercedes was still a supplier to McLaren at the time.Moore77 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:17 amIt really makes me chuckle looking at this debate! Mercedes' current chief designer John Owen is with this team since 2007, when the team was Honda F1. He was the Principal Aerodynamicist at Honda!These horns came in 2008 Honda car. So one can assume, those horns have moved along with John.
https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/ ... 11680.htmlStoffel Vandoorne says the culture inside the Mercedes team is what makes it so dominant.
"The group of people here have been working together for 15 years basically. They know each other so well because there is so little staff turnover.